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  • NEFILIM001@aol.com
    I see myself a practicing Existentialist, since having left the ( forced Training on the way to a life of Protestantism -- and future Missionary work,
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 2, 2005
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      I see myself a practicing Existentialist, since having left the ("forced"
      'Training' on the way to a life of Protestantism -- and future Missionary work,
      from age 7ish to about age 14ish. I 'Hoped & Feared and Challenged the
      "Faith" of my fathers until about age 20ish; when a NewBestFriend -- began
      inviting me to attend psychology, and philosophy 'Debates'. This was the best
      thing to happen to me. It was thus that I was introduced to ZEN in ernest; also
      a whole variety of other 'Spiritual Understandings' which I might not have
      otherwise crossed-over to read, discuss and explore deeply.

      In College I was loaned a couple of Jean Paul Satre books--and never looked
      back!!!! I read and reread Kant; Blasé Pascal; Kierkegaard; Nietzsche &
      Camus--But Sartre is first and foremost my favorite of the writers!

      I am an administrator in a small NYC H.S. which seems more "private" than
      public, in that we Study-outside/beyond-the 'books'. Hunter Thompson DOES most
      surely come up for discussion--and all other significant persons who write,
      run for office, paint, or utter any/all differences-of-(religious, political
      or social) opin(ions).

      You are so wise to pick up on the basic notion that we can never really deem
      ourselves truly "free" until we understand [being free to choose (our own
      time/quality) of death] is actually the UltimateFreedom. I know I can {except
      of course for any number of unforeseen circumstances} decide I want to
      "pass-on;" tucked quietly away in an obscure bedroom--rather than die an
      'accidental' death (in the hands of an otherwise talented Being) on a random operating
      table.


      Sincerely,
      Frank
      ps: I do not -- Think-Therefore-I-Am... Rather I Am-therefore-I-Think. It
      seems all so very clean and to the point to me. I am not necessarily bowled
      over by Faith, Hope and undersustained bout of 'wonderment'.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • louise
      Welcome, Frank. Both your messages so far are very constructive, at a time when tempers have been getting frayed again, or confusions invasive. I m really
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 3, 2005
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        Welcome, Frank. Both your messages so far are very constructive, at
        a time when tempers have been getting frayed again, or confusions
        invasive. I'm really hoping you and Nolan and others will have good
        conversations, in part because I'd like people to see that I am not
        half so ironic as I seem. The imagery of faiths is ancient and
        archetypal, and in my view has an invaluable part to play in
        delineating what existentialism is, an intellectual exercise which
        at best encourages human beings to become practising
        existentialists, or ever more precise in their existing practice.
        The word 'precise' is very alien to my feeling, but then I lean
        toward the dialectical, ever watchful for the grit that discomforts
        the oyster. Louise


        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, NEFILIM001@a... wrote:
        > I see myself a practicing Existentialist, since having left the
        ("forced"
        > 'Training' on the way to a life of Protestantism -- and future
        Missionary work,
        > from age 7ish to about age 14ish. I 'Hoped & Feared and
        Challenged the
        > "Faith" of my fathers until about age 20ish; when a
        NewBestFriend -- began
        > inviting me to attend psychology, and philosophy 'Debates'. This
        was the best
        > thing to happen to me. It was thus that I was introduced to ZEN
        in ernest; also
        > a whole variety of other 'Spiritual Understandings' which I might
        not have
        > otherwise crossed-over to read, discuss and explore deeply.
        >
        > In College I was loaned a couple of Jean Paul Satre books--and
        never looked
        > back!!!! I read and reread Kant; Blasé Pascal; Kierkegaard;
        Nietzsche &
        > Camus--But Sartre is first and foremost my favorite of the
        writers!
        >
        > I am an administrator in a small NYC H.S. which seems
        more "private" than
        > public, in that we Study-outside/beyond-the 'books'. Hunter
        Thompson DOES most
        > surely come up for discussion--and all other significant persons
        who write,
        > run for office, paint, or utter any/all differences-of-
        (religious, political
        > or social) opin(ions).
        >
        > You are so wise to pick up on the basic notion that we can never
        really deem
        > ourselves truly "free" until we understand [being free to choose
        (our own
        > time/quality) of death] is actually the UltimateFreedom. I know
        I can {except
        > of course for any number of unforeseen circumstances} decide I
        want to
        > "pass-on;" tucked quietly away in an obscure bedroom--rather than
        die an
        > 'accidental' death (in the hands of an otherwise talented Being)
        on a random operating
        > table.
        >
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Frank
        > ps: I do not -- Think-Therefore-I-Am... Rather I Am-therefore-I-
        Think. It
        > seems all so very clean and to the point to me. I am not
        necessarily bowled
        > over by Faith, Hope and undersustained bout of 'wonderment'.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • gina goia
        -No matter what one thinks of being and nothingness ,there is no doubt about its originality or its being a carefully elaborated,closely argued work.No matter
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 3, 2005
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          -No matter what one thinks of"being and nothingness",there is no
          doubt about its originality or its being a carefully
          elaborated,closely argued work.No matter how a beatnik
          existentialism seized upon the slogan-like statements of Sartrean
          philosophy-"there is no moral law","man is a useless passion","life
          is meaningless","the world is a nauseating mess,"hell is other
          people",-these emerged for Sartre only after he had arduously worked
          out his philosophic categories.Being-for-itself(man's consciousness)
          and Being-in-itself(the objects of conscious,or non-conscious
          reality)demonstrates that the very nature of the individual is to be
          free.In a sort of purgatory created by "nothingness",the
          Void,Consciousness,and the objects it is consciousof,the struggle is
          ceaseless,as in the confrontation between the"for-itself"and the "in
          itself".The permanent frustration which end in "No Exit"as the
          confrontation with "for other"only lead to the recognition that"Hell
          is other people".Now it is true that the prevailing theme is
          that "respect for Other's freedom is an empty word".It is true that
          because Sartre's theory of human relations is bound hand and
          foot,held in confinement to but two"fundamental attitudes"-the
          equally deplorable extremes of masochism and sadism-"perpetual
          failure"is the result.The individual is an
          anguish,loneliness.Frustration is in infinite regress.But it is also
          true that this fantastic theory of human relations was in conflict
          with Sartre's other theory,that of individual freedom.Now,on the
          other hand,the very nature of the Individual,as of the masses,seems
          to allow him to be reduced to inert practicality.It is true that
          where in "being and noth...)the singular is always singular,never
          universal.In the"Critique"the problemis reversed.But this is only
          the opposite side of the same coin-a stasis-;a listing of
          opposites,not a live struggle,surely not one in which masses have
          their say.Not only in history subordinated to ontology,but it is
          also reduced to either "examples" or "analogy".As George Lichtheim
          noted,"Sartre's humans don't cooperate,they are thrown together
          or,as he put it,serialised...Thus human nature is shown by a state
          of affairs which bears a marked resemblance to a concentration
          camp".Where in "Being and Noth...)the process of collapse is
          everything in "Critique"the terror of the the "collectivity"becomes
          everything...It may be,as one historian put it,that
          the "Critique"had transformed the "perpetual failure"of "being and
          noth...)into"perpetual success.However,the conclusion that"Behind
          the nihilistic language of Existentialism lurks the ideology of free
          competition,free initiative,and equal opportunity"does not hit the
          nail on the head.The real tragedy is that"behind Sartre's nihilistic
          language lurks-nothing.Just nothing.And because there was no past
          and the present world is "absurd"there is no future.To the isolated
          intellectual nothing may have appeared as"creative".Nothingness,a
          blank page of history on which the individual could write what he
          wished...."...how beautiful!!!,welcome Frank,Sartre was o wonder!
          gina-- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, NEFILIM001@a... wrote:
          > I see myself a practicing Existentialist, since having left the
          ("forced"
          > 'Training' on the way to a life of Protestantism -- and future
          Missionary work,
          > from age 7ish to about age 14ish. I 'Hoped & Feared and
          Challenged the
          > "Faith" of my fathers until about age 20ish; when a
          NewBestFriend -- began
          > inviting me to attend psychology, and philosophy 'Debates'. This
          was the best
          > thing to happen to me. It was thus that I was introduced to ZEN
          in ernest; also
          > a whole variety of other 'Spiritual Understandings' which I might
          not have
          > otherwise crossed-over to read, discuss and explore deeply.
          >
          > In College I was loaned a couple of Jean Paul Satre books--and
          never looked
          > back!!!! I read and reread Kant; Blasé Pascal; Kierkegaard;
          Nietzsche &
          > Camus--But Sartre is first and foremost my favorite of the
          writers!
          >
          > I am an administrator in a small NYC H.S. which seems
          more "private" than
          > public, in that we Study-outside/beyond-the 'books'. Hunter
          Thompson DOES most
          > surely come up for discussion--and all other significant persons
          who write,
          > run for office, paint, or utter any/all differences-of-
          (religious, political
          > or social) opin(ions).
          >
          > You are so wise to pick up on the basic notion that we can never
          really deem
          > ourselves truly "free" until we understand [being free to choose
          (our own
          > time/quality) of death] is actually the UltimateFreedom. I know
          I can {except
          > of course for any number of unforeseen circumstances} decide I
          want to
          > "pass-on;" tucked quietly away in an obscure bedroom--rather than
          die an
          > 'accidental' death (in the hands of an otherwise talented Being)
          on a random operating
          > table.
          >
          >
          > Sincerely,
          > Frank
          > ps: I do not -- Think-Therefore-I-Am... Rather I Am-therefore-I-
          Think. It
          > seems all so very clean and to the point to me. I am not
          necessarily bowled
          > over by Faith, Hope and undersustained bout of 'wonderment'.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • C. S. Wyatt
          Always good to have another member, especially another (shhh) hiding from the academic establishment. A question we have been pondering is what makes one drift
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 3, 2005
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            Always good to have another member, especially another (shhh) hiding
            from the academic establishment.

            A question we have been pondering is what makes one drift towards
            Sartre and his "individualism" versus Rand and her flavor of the
            individual?

            Welcome aboard.
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