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where does the shaman exist?

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  • Mary Jo
    Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense team finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native American shaman aren t respected.
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
      Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense team
      finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native American
      shaman aren't respected. Why would he? My advice to this poor
      misplaced, mystically misguided refugee would be to cross over and
      disappear into his shamanic realm. That's the only way he'll appear
      insane to the rest of the world and find some refuge. It's been known
      to happen. Mary

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@m...>
      wrote:
      >
      > The NYT reports the Wis. shooter is a Hmong shamen. Already
      > acedemics from the Univ of Wis. are weighing in with opinions
      > relating to Hmong shanenism and a possible defense. The concept
      of
      > a freedom of religion defense along with self defense might fly.
      > Most interesting will be the acedemic involvement in the case.
      With
      > the defendants family involvement with the CIA this could become a
      > most interesting case to follow. I would imagine we will see Hmong
      > shamanism will be linked to the strong hunting customs of these
      > peoples. That ties religion to hunting and surly a good defense
      > lawyer will tie racism to the mix. I would not like to be the
      > district attourney in this fight. Bill
    • bhvwd
      Mary, True, the concept of shamen has not enjoyed respect within the American legal system. I guess I am happy about that. As a mitigating, cultural
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
        Mary, True, the concept of shamen has not enjoyed respect within
        the American legal system. I guess I am happy about that. As a
        mitigating, cultural aspect it would seem to relate to the civil
        rights of an individual, and again you are right, they will play
        hell getting him a fair trial in that area. The Sons of Silence will
        probably have little respect for his priesthood in general
        population. For me this whole thing is just another hanging debacle
        of the lousey asian war. That situation will keep making trouble
        for long after we are all gone. Of course lies seems small compaired
        to war but that war was conceived in falsehood and remained a mad
        mass of lies to this day.This little tribesman could probably
        shed light on Nixons illegal incursion in Laos. Do people in the
        CIA want those facts to come to light? I think this guy will become
        a political football in a game played forty years ago. Bill
      • louise
        Mary, Is this man in custody? And, if so, how does he cross over and disappear into his shamanic realm ? Sometimes I think you humanists (not a word I would
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
          Mary,

          Is this man in custody? And, if so, how does he 'cross over and
          disappear into his shamanic realm'? Sometimes I think you humanists
          (not a word I would use to describe Bill, though), have the most far-
          out ideas of all. Otherwise, I can't really comment. autres
          moeurs, autre pays, autres lois. pig-french, anyone??

          Louise

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense team
          > finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native
          American
          > shaman aren't respected. Why would he? My advice to this poor
          > misplaced, mystically misguided refugee would be to cross over and
          > disappear into his shamanic realm. That's the only way he'll
          appear
          > insane to the rest of the world and find some refuge. It's been
          known
          > to happen. Mary
        • Mary Jo
          Louise, the shaman him/herself believes they can live in either world or both simultaneously. They experience in their own minds a place time distortion or
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
            Louise, the shaman him/herself believes they can live in either world
            or both simultaneously. They experience in their own minds a place
            time distortion or displacement. I was trying to offer a creative
            solution for a tragic situation. Whatchu got besides pig shit non-
            comments? Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Mary,
            >
            > Is this man in custody? And, if so, how does he 'cross over and
            > disappear into his shamanic realm'? Sometimes I think you
            humanists
            > (not a word I would use to describe Bill, though), have the most
            far-
            > out ideas of all. Otherwise, I can't really comment. autres
            > moeurs, autre pays, autres lois. pig-french, anyone??
            >
            > Louise
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense team
            > > finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native
            > American
            > > shaman aren't respected. Why would he? My advice to this poor
            > > misplaced, mystically misguided refugee would be to cross over
            and
            > > disappear into his shamanic realm. That's the only way he'll
            > appear
            > > insane to the rest of the world and find some refuge. It's been
            > known
            > > to happen. Mary
          • Mary Jo
            Bill, hasn t most of that secret wars era info been declassified? I always worry about the men who served in special situations becoming security risks. They
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
              Bill, hasn't most of that secret wars era info been declassified? I
              always worry about the men who served in special situations becoming
              security risks. They can disappear or get set up as appearing to be
              wacko. You'd think they find ways to protect them, but when something
              as egregious as a Malvo happens, there's not much they can do I
              suppose. The Hmong are literally living in two worlds. From time to
              time, realities will clash. It doesn't look good for the shaman. Mary

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@m...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Mary, True, the concept of shamen has not enjoyed respect
              within
              > the American legal system. I guess I am happy about that. As a
              > mitigating, cultural aspect it would seem to relate to the civil
              > rights of an individual, and again you are right, they will play
              > hell getting him a fair trial in that area. The Sons of Silence
              will
              > probably have little respect for his priesthood in general
              > population. For me this whole thing is just another hanging
              debacle
              > of the lousey asian war. That situation will keep making trouble
              > for long after we are all gone. Of course lies seems small
              compaired
              > to war but that war was conceived in falsehood and remained a
              mad
              > mass of lies to this day.This little tribesman could probably
              > shed light on Nixons illegal incursion in Laos. Do people in the
              > CIA want those facts to come to light? I think this guy will become
              > a political football in a game played forty years ago. Bill
            • louise
              Whoa!! Mary, it s nice to see what you ve got in the locker, at last ... You re far more suspicious than Eduard ever was, but as you ve got tons less
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
                Whoa!! Mary, it's nice to see what you've got in the locker, at
                last ... You're far more suspicious than Eduard ever was, but as
                you've got tons less testosterone than Bill, I'm not quaking in my
                boots. I just think you're being patronising to this guy. Your
                superior attitude makes me nauseous. That's not personal, not for
                the kind of nihilist I am. I don't condone murder, but then I don't
                condone an ignorant righteousness either. Louise

                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Louise, the shaman him/herself believes they can live in either
                world
                > or both simultaneously. They experience in their own minds a place
                > time distortion or displacement. I was trying to offer a creative
                > solution for a tragic situation. Whatchu got besides pig shit non-
                > comments? Mary
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > Mary,
                > >
                > > Is this man in custody? And, if so, how does he 'cross over and
                > > disappear into his shamanic realm'? Sometimes I think you
                > humanists
                > > (not a word I would use to describe Bill, though), have the most
                > far-
                > > out ideas of all. Otherwise, I can't really comment. autres
                > > moeurs, autre pays, autres lois. pig-french, anyone??
                > >
                > > Louise
                > >
                > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...>
                wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense
                team
                > > > finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native
                > > American
                > > > shaman aren't respected. Why would he? My advice to this poor
                > > > misplaced, mystically misguided refugee would be to cross over
                > and
                > > > disappear into his shamanic realm. That's the only way he'll
                > > appear
                > > > insane to the rest of the world and find some refuge. It's
                been
                > > known
                > > > to happen. Mary
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