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Shamen in the woods

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  • bhvwd
    The NYT reports the Wis. shooter is a Hmong shamen. Already acedemics from the Univ of Wis. are weighing in with opinions relating to Hmong shanenism and
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
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      The NYT reports the Wis. shooter is a Hmong shamen. Already
      acedemics from the Univ of Wis. are weighing in with opinions
      relating to Hmong shanenism and a possible defense. The concept of
      a freedom of religion defense along with self defense might fly.
      Most interesting will be the acedemic involvement in the case. With
      the defendants family involvement with the CIA this could become a
      most interesting case to follow. I would imagine we will see Hmong
      shamanism will be linked to the strong hunting customs of these
      peoples. That ties religion to hunting and surly a good defense
      lawyer will tie racism to the mix. I would not like to be the
      district attourney in this fight. Bill
    • Mary Jo
      Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense team finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native American shaman aren t respected.
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
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        Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense team
        finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native American
        shaman aren't respected. Why would he? My advice to this poor
        misplaced, mystically misguided refugee would be to cross over and
        disappear into his shamanic realm. That's the only way he'll appear
        insane to the rest of the world and find some refuge. It's been known
        to happen. Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@m...>
        wrote:
        >
        > The NYT reports the Wis. shooter is a Hmong shamen. Already
        > acedemics from the Univ of Wis. are weighing in with opinions
        > relating to Hmong shanenism and a possible defense. The concept
        of
        > a freedom of religion defense along with self defense might fly.
        > Most interesting will be the acedemic involvement in the case.
        With
        > the defendants family involvement with the CIA this could become a
        > most interesting case to follow. I would imagine we will see Hmong
        > shamanism will be linked to the strong hunting customs of these
        > peoples. That ties religion to hunting and surly a good defense
        > lawyer will tie racism to the mix. I would not like to be the
        > district attourney in this fight. Bill
      • bhvwd
        Mary, True, the concept of shamen has not enjoyed respect within the American legal system. I guess I am happy about that. As a mitigating, cultural
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
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          Mary, True, the concept of shamen has not enjoyed respect within
          the American legal system. I guess I am happy about that. As a
          mitigating, cultural aspect it would seem to relate to the civil
          rights of an individual, and again you are right, they will play
          hell getting him a fair trial in that area. The Sons of Silence will
          probably have little respect for his priesthood in general
          population. For me this whole thing is just another hanging debacle
          of the lousey asian war. That situation will keep making trouble
          for long after we are all gone. Of course lies seems small compaired
          to war but that war was conceived in falsehood and remained a mad
          mass of lies to this day.This little tribesman could probably
          shed light on Nixons illegal incursion in Laos. Do people in the
          CIA want those facts to come to light? I think this guy will become
          a political football in a game played forty years ago. Bill
        • louise
          Mary, Is this man in custody? And, if so, how does he cross over and disappear into his shamanic realm ? Sometimes I think you humanists (not a word I would
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
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            Mary,

            Is this man in custody? And, if so, how does he 'cross over and
            disappear into his shamanic realm'? Sometimes I think you humanists
            (not a word I would use to describe Bill, though), have the most far-
            out ideas of all. Otherwise, I can't really comment. autres
            moeurs, autre pays, autres lois. pig-french, anyone??

            Louise

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense team
            > finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native
            American
            > shaman aren't respected. Why would he? My advice to this poor
            > misplaced, mystically misguided refugee would be to cross over and
            > disappear into his shamanic realm. That's the only way he'll
            appear
            > insane to the rest of the world and find some refuge. It's been
            known
            > to happen. Mary
          • Mary Jo
            Louise, the shaman him/herself believes they can live in either world or both simultaneously. They experience in their own minds a place time distortion or
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
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              Louise, the shaman him/herself believes they can live in either world
              or both simultaneously. They experience in their own minds a place
              time distortion or displacement. I was trying to offer a creative
              solution for a tragic situation. Whatchu got besides pig shit non-
              comments? Mary

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Mary,
              >
              > Is this man in custody? And, if so, how does he 'cross over and
              > disappear into his shamanic realm'? Sometimes I think you
              humanists
              > (not a word I would use to describe Bill, though), have the most
              far-
              > out ideas of all. Otherwise, I can't really comment. autres
              > moeurs, autre pays, autres lois. pig-french, anyone??
              >
              > Louise
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense team
              > > finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native
              > American
              > > shaman aren't respected. Why would he? My advice to this poor
              > > misplaced, mystically misguided refugee would be to cross over
              and
              > > disappear into his shamanic realm. That's the only way he'll
              > appear
              > > insane to the rest of the world and find some refuge. It's been
              > known
              > > to happen. Mary
            • Mary Jo
              Bill, hasn t most of that secret wars era info been declassified? I always worry about the men who served in special situations becoming security risks. They
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
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                Bill, hasn't most of that secret wars era info been declassified? I
                always worry about the men who served in special situations becoming
                security risks. They can disappear or get set up as appearing to be
                wacko. You'd think they find ways to protect them, but when something
                as egregious as a Malvo happens, there's not much they can do I
                suppose. The Hmong are literally living in two worlds. From time to
                time, realities will clash. It doesn't look good for the shaman. Mary

                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@m...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Mary, True, the concept of shamen has not enjoyed respect
                within
                > the American legal system. I guess I am happy about that. As a
                > mitigating, cultural aspect it would seem to relate to the civil
                > rights of an individual, and again you are right, they will play
                > hell getting him a fair trial in that area. The Sons of Silence
                will
                > probably have little respect for his priesthood in general
                > population. For me this whole thing is just another hanging
                debacle
                > of the lousey asian war. That situation will keep making trouble
                > for long after we are all gone. Of course lies seems small
                compaired
                > to war but that war was conceived in falsehood and remained a
                mad
                > mass of lies to this day.This little tribesman could probably
                > shed light on Nixons illegal incursion in Laos. Do people in the
                > CIA want those facts to come to light? I think this guy will become
                > a political football in a game played forty years ago. Bill
              • louise
                Whoa!! Mary, it s nice to see what you ve got in the locker, at last ... You re far more suspicious than Eduard ever was, but as you ve got tons less
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 1, 2004
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                  Whoa!! Mary, it's nice to see what you've got in the locker, at
                  last ... You're far more suspicious than Eduard ever was, but as
                  you've got tons less testosterone than Bill, I'm not quaking in my
                  boots. I just think you're being patronising to this guy. Your
                  superior attitude makes me nauseous. That's not personal, not for
                  the kind of nihilist I am. I don't condone murder, but then I don't
                  condone an ignorant righteousness either. Louise

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Louise, the shaman him/herself believes they can live in either
                  world
                  > or both simultaneously. They experience in their own minds a place
                  > time distortion or displacement. I was trying to offer a creative
                  > solution for a tragic situation. Whatchu got besides pig shit non-
                  > comments? Mary
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Mary,
                  > >
                  > > Is this man in custody? And, if so, how does he 'cross over and
                  > > disappear into his shamanic realm'? Sometimes I think you
                  > humanists
                  > > (not a word I would use to describe Bill, though), have the most
                  > far-
                  > > out ideas of all. Otherwise, I can't really comment. autres
                  > > moeurs, autre pays, autres lois. pig-french, anyone??
                  > >
                  > > Louise
                  > >
                  > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Vang will never find a jury of his peers; and if his defense
                  team
                  > > > finds any sympathetic jurors, it will be a miracle. Native
                  > > American
                  > > > shaman aren't respected. Why would he? My advice to this poor
                  > > > misplaced, mystically misguided refugee would be to cross over
                  > and
                  > > > disappear into his shamanic realm. That's the only way he'll
                  > > appear
                  > > > insane to the rest of the world and find some refuge. It's
                  been
                  > > known
                  > > > to happen. Mary
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