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  • bhvwd
    It came from most high Jupiter. Jupiter, the master of the Dardinells, rejoiced on the wings of the young. Jupiter , the master himself, would command. Brave
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 17, 2004
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      It came from most high Jupiter. Jupiter, the master of the
      Dardinells, rejoiced on the wings of the young. Jupiter , the master
      himself, would command. Brave Achilles of Troy would see it to the
      end. The servants of Greece would give all to the coalition and
      quell the discord in the camp and the fates of Europe and Asia would
      run togeather on Earth. Those who had heard and those who refused to
      listen would be called to the ocean and if four great plagues caused
      the very sun to be ill, it would not change orbit. Bill
    • Mary Jo
      The most creative translation. I like it. Someone in my latin class had a similar style. Drove teach crazy. She kept calling him a lazy SOB genius and
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 18, 2004
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        The most creative translation. I like it. Someone in my latin class
        had a similar style. Drove teach crazy. She kept calling him a lazy
        SOB genius and threatened to flunk him. Sound familiar? Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <v.valleywestdental@m...>
        wrote:
        >
        > It came from most high Jupiter. Jupiter, the master of the
        > Dardinells, rejoiced on the wings of the young. Jupiter , the
        master
        > himself, would command. Brave Achilles of Troy would see it to the
        > end. The servants of Greece would give all to the coalition and
        > quell the discord in the camp and the fates of Europe and Asia
        would
        > run togeather on Earth. Those who had heard and those who refused
        to
        > listen would be called to the ocean and if four great plagues
        caused
        > the very sun to be ill, it would not change orbit. Bill
      • George Walton
        John Marmysz from Laughing At Nothing: Camus s own assessment of the human condition led him to advocate a stance of rebellion over that of revolution .
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 18, 2004
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          John Marmysz from Laughing At Nothing:


          'Camus's own assessment of the 'human condition' led him to advocate a stance of 'rebellion' over that of 'revolution'. The revolutionary, in contrast to the rebel, is one who seeks to silence the voices and strivings of others in order to establish a particular interpretation of the world as final and soley legitimate. In so doing, the revolutionary sets the stage for murder."

          And:

          "The difference between the revolutionary and the rebel is, for Camus, the difference between nihilism and absurdism. Nihilism consists in that path leading humankind toward extinction, while absurdism is that path that leads toward continued, lively exertion. Camus groups all of history's revolutionaries, from de Sade to Nietzsche, from Marx to Sartre, from the anarchists to the fascists, as nihilihists of one stripe or another. All wittingly or unwittingly lead the human race on paths resulting in the justification of murder and suicide."



          Can nihilism be reduced to this, however? Isn't it generally assumed by most nihilists, in fact, that, given an essential lack of ontological or teleological meaning, the human condition cannot be reduced to a "final and soley legitimate" agenda the fascists and anarchists and ubermen and Marxists etc. tend to embrace?

          And most revolutionaries were not revolting against philosophical conjectures; they were revolting instead against the very real [and brutal and institutionalized] economic exploitation and political oppression that flows from the manner in which power is distributed in the actual historical evolution of political economy.

          After all, in his struggle against apartheid, was Nelson Mandella a rebel...or a revolutionary? Can we really carve out a neat and tidy distinction between them? Or in his response to the Algerian insurrection against French colonialism was Camus a rebel...or a reactionary?

          One can easily grasp the relationship beteen absurdity and nihilism. If the human existence is inherently meaningless and absurd than why not behave in the manner you see fit. Anything, after all, can be rationalized in an absurd world. But that does not mean that absurdity necessarily leads to radical nihilism. Meaning and values are always situated existentially out in the real world. That is a nihilistic point of view that can, paradoxically, lead to political and ethical moderation. It depends on how folks are willing to shape and mold their lives in an essentially absurd world.


          George




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        • louise
          George: ... After all, in his struggle against apartheid, was Nelson Mandella a rebel...or a revolutionary? Active as I was, in however tiny and ineffectual a
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 18, 2004
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            George: ... After all, in his struggle against apartheid, was Nelson
            Mandella a rebel...or a revolutionary?

            Active as I was, in however tiny and ineffectual a role, within the
            Anti-Apartheid movement in 1979-80, I remember reading about the
            Marxist training camps for the ANC in countries adjacent to South
            Africa, and what happened to some dissenters, and about the whole
            fraught relationship between the Inkatha and Mandela's people. As
            the years passed, I felt more and more uncomfortable at having
            involved myself in a political struggle I knew nothing about. My
            motives were pure sentiment. I read about one alleged instance of
            unspeakable torture perpetrated by a policeman on a black girl, and
            joined up. I don't regret my decision, but there have been times
            when I've felt guilty. Apartheid has not been abolished: it has
            changed its nature. I still know next to nothing about South
            Africa. You could make out a case for Mandela being a terrorist,
            certainly I think a saboteur. For whom was he working? Can we
            really judge his motives? I doubt that he would think of himself as
            an existentialist. He comes across as a gentleman, and hence rather
            different from the rough diamonds like Stalin and Hussein who prove
            bloodthirsty and ruthless once in power. This is all very
            political, though, and sends me to sleep.

            Louise
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