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Re: [existlist] My death or death as a real earth non-being.

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  • eduard at home
    Death is something that, when we are not dying, is simply a matter of philosophy. Death, when we are dying, is something that we are reluctant to undergo,
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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      Death is something that, when we are not dying, is simply a matter of philosophy.

      Death, when we are dying, is something that we are reluctant to undergo, since we can think of a lot more things that need to be done. "Lord, give me one more day, as I need to finish my Japanese garden ... or clean the house ... or ride my bike around the block.

      Death, when we are dying and are tired of the dealing with daily contests, is something seen as a welcomed opportunity for rest.

      eduard
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Serge Roganov
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 3:19 PM
      Subject: [existlist] My death or death as a real earth non-being.



      The death as an instant natural event is a construction which
      appeared two centuries ago. "Natural death" is a background for
      philosophy and psychology. But this construction is dead now.
      The problem of death is neither one of "transitory nature" of human
      being, nor the one of the attitude in this or that way to the fact
      of "natural death". Man realizes his own death. Human originality
      (self-being) is in the possibility to do this and in the way man
      does it. Birth and death belong to man and are realized by him. To
      realize the death of our generation and as a background of such need
      of death, to realize one's own death or to commit a death, if you
      will. Such a need - "to commit a death" seems like a commonplace, a
      usual suicide but it is this crucial point where we encounter
      especially our problem and solution of this problem rooted in a
      whole Russian culture of last two centuries. To commit a death
      presuppose a man who acts as a proper human being - to rely upon
      oneself and to be enabled only with one's own possibilities. This
      is, so to say, pre-theoretical decision - to realize one's death. We
      have known what we seek for, and certainly, we find this death at
      last.
      If we seek for not only a «need-of- death», but really need to
      realize ours, we seek for a death which can be accessible for human
      actions, we seek for death which has a real place in human history,
      both in my own as an earth way and in a whole history of humanity.
      The human death is not an instant event, such inevitable natural
      moment, but is real earth history of a man, non-being as such.
      In other words, a man can "to be", but a man can "not to be", not
      leaving earth world. So well known west "finitude" becomes a history
      for us with both a beginning and an end and the end itself turn into
      the history of end, in other words, the death as real earth history,
      that everybody enters and unfold itself not as the history of dying -
      dying entirely belongs to former Life, but as non-being. For us
      inevitable event of natural death turns into death as earth history
      of non-being. Everybody and everything enters it.
      Only such death can be accessible for me, a death as a real history
      of my non-being, the history of absolute human Rest, that everybody
      attains one day long before vanishing into thing air.
      The Rest is a most destructive history and human rest, or earth
      history of non-being, develops through self-deconstruction, and only
      in such way, a man "committing its death", can present in a history,
      in an earth world from some crucial moment of earth way.






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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • lorrainep21@aol.com
      I agree with you! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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        I agree with you!


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mary Jo
        Serge, I think I agree with you, but I m struggling with your unique terminology. Are you saying that we personally die because we are aware of the historical
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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          Serge,

          I think I agree with you, but I'm struggling with your unique
          terminology. Are you saying that we personally die because we are
          aware of the historical death (or non-being) of others? Would that
          mean that if we weren't aware of, or hadn't witnessed the death of
          others, we wouldn't know of death and wouldn't die? This is a very
          controversial concept. Is death contagious? It's a question that's
          impossible to answer now that death seems to be a universal event,
          even though you can only personally experience your own death. Do we
          deconstruct our carefully constructed personality-selves simply
          because we 'see' others dying? On the surface, such an idea seems
          unscientific; but essentially it might be true, because we really
          haven't determined WHY some organisms die when they do. Disruption
          or 'death' at some molecular level may only be a conditioned process
          reaction to a cataclysmic shock for which we have no 'solution'.
          Perhaps human dissolution is only a temporary evolutionary level.
          Observing our cosmos and its tremendous changes gives me hope in our
          potential. We can blame death on other humans, pathogens, or
          asteroids; but if we die, isn't it our own fault? For now, it seems
          that while we live, we are realized. When we die, we're not.

          Mary

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Serge Roganov" <svroganov@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > The death as an instant natural event is a construction which
          > appeared two centuries ago. "Natural death" is a background for
          > philosophy and psychology. But this construction is dead now.
          > The problem of death is neither one of "transitory nature" of human
          > being, nor the one of the attitude in this or that way to the fact
          > of "natural death". Man realizes his own death. Human originality
          > (self-being) is in the possibility to do this and in the way man
          > does it. Birth and death belong to man and are realized by him. To
          > realize the death of our generation and as a background of such
          need
          > of death, to realize one's own death or to commit a death, if you
          > will. Such a need – "to commit a death" seems like a commonplace, a
          > usual suicide but it is this crucial point where we encounter
          > especially our problem and solution of this problem rooted in a
          > whole Russian culture of last two centuries. To commit a death
          > presuppose a man who acts as a proper human being – to rely upon
          > oneself and to be enabled only with one's own possibilities. This
          > is, so to say, pre-theoretical decision – to realize one's death.
          We
          > have known what we seek for, and certainly, we find this death at
          > last.
          > If we seek for not only a «need-of- death», but really need to
          > realize ours, we seek for a death which can be accessible for human
          > actions, we seek for death which has a real place in human history,
          > both in my own as an earth way and in a whole history of humanity.
          > The human death is not an instant event, such inevitable natural
          > moment, but is real earth history of a man, non-being as such.
          > In other words, a man can "to be", but a man can "not to be", not
          > leaving earth world. So well known west "finitude" becomes a
          history
          > for us with both a beginning and an end and the end itself turn
          into
          > the history of end, in other words, the death as real earth
          history,
          > that everybody enters and unfold itself not as the history of
          dying –
          > dying entirely belongs to former Life, but as non-being. For us
          > inevitable event of natural death turns into death as earth history
          > of non-being. Everybody and everything enters it.
          > Only such death can be accessible for me, a death as a real history
          > of my non-being, the history of absolute human Rest, that everybody
          > attains one day long before vanishing into thing air.
          > The Rest is a most destructive history and human rest, or earth
          > history of non-being, develops through self-deconstruction, and
          only
          > in such way, a man "committing its death", can present in a
          history,
          > in an earth world from some crucial moment of earth way.
        • lorrainep21@aol.com
          Yes, I can understand the latter...perhaps, it would be best if I didn t understand that to see death is seeing the end of what at times is just to much ado
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 4, 2004
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            Yes, I can understand the latter...perhaps, it would be best if I didn't
            understand that to see death is seeing the end of what at times is just to much
            ado about nothing????or just too damn hard, or simply too much pain...........
            LMP


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • bjunius30
            As I ve said before, and you can make light of this any way want, but we are only concerned with a certain number of categories in our life time: God, Time,
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 4, 2004
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              As I've said before, and you can make light of this any way want, but
              we are only concerned with a certain number of categories in our life
              time: God, Time, Death, & Experience.

              Any way you put we are at the mercy of all these things: God
              essentially meaning our birth, our spirituality, our longingness in
              the affairs of love. Time, the measurement of our flesh and corpeal
              beingness. Death the abstraction of thought brought to live with
              disdain and uncertainty or sometimes the attraction to it.
              Experience, the memories and feelings we share. The perceptions of
              our own constructs, inner and outer...,

              yes, only so many combinations...,so in essence our world multiplies
              these necessities into a higher thought of meaning and perveyance
              throughout the universe.

              Perhaps, later I might change my mind about this like Wittegstein,
              but it seems plausible and elegant to a certain degree. So far, I
              have not been able to tear it apart with my own cold scrutinizing.

              Bryan Junius, Ph.D


              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, lorrainep21@a... wrote:
              > Yes, I can understand the latter...perhaps, it would be best if I
              didn't
              > understand that to see death is seeing the end of what at times is
              just to much
              > ado about nothing????or just too damn hard, or simply too much
              pain...........
              > LMP
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • louise
              Hmmm ... So it s ok to make light? In which category(ies) does football appear? The young in our country here in the UK are encouraged to kick racism out of it
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 4, 2004
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                Hmmm ...

                So it's ok to make light?

                In which category(ies) does football appear?

                The young in our country here in the UK are encouraged to kick
                racism out of it - in case that's relevant. There is no end to
                debate. Unlike the Saint (Paul), I don't despise the Athenians for
                evermore discussing each new thing. Words words words I lov'em.
                Until they mean to hurt.

                Even death's good if it's not the flesh.

                Except it die ...

                Programme about Agincourt currently showing. Map of Medieval France
                depicted, vying camps narrated.

                "With a weak king and a fractured state, it seemed that France was
                ripe for the plucking ... "

                You heard it here first.

                Louise


                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bjunius30" <bjunius30@n...> wrote:
                >
                > As I've said before, and you can make light of this any way want,
                but
                > we are only concerned with a certain number of categories in our
                life
                > time: God, Time, Death, & Experience.
                >
                > Any way you put we are at the mercy of all these things: God
                > essentially meaning our birth, our spirituality, our longingness
                in
                > the affairs of love. Time, the measurement of our flesh and
                corpeal
                > beingness. Death the abstraction of thought brought to live with
                > disdain and uncertainty or sometimes the attraction to it.
                > Experience, the memories and feelings we share. The perceptions of
                > our own constructs, inner and outer...,
                >
                > yes, only so many combinations...,so in essence our world
                multiplies
                > these necessities into a higher thought of meaning and perveyance
                > throughout the universe.
                >
                > Perhaps, later I might change my mind about this like Wittegstein,
                > but it seems plausible and elegant to a certain degree. So far, I
                > have not been able to tear it apart with my own cold scrutinizing.
                >
                > Bryan Junius, Ph.D
                >
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, lorrainep21@a... wrote:
                > > Yes, I can understand the latter...perhaps, it would be best if
                I
                > didn't
                > > understand that to see death is seeing the end of what at times
                is
                > just to much
                > > ado about nothing????or just too damn hard, or simply too much
                > pain...........
                > > LMP
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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