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My death or death as a real earth non-being.

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  • Serge Roganov
    The death as an instant natural event is a construction which appeared two centuries ago. Natural death is a background for philosophy and psychology. But
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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      The death as an instant natural event is a construction which
      appeared two centuries ago. "Natural death" is a background for
      philosophy and psychology. But this construction is dead now.
      The problem of death is neither one of "transitory nature" of human
      being, nor the one of the attitude in this or that way to the fact
      of "natural death". Man realizes his own death. Human originality
      (self-being) is in the possibility to do this and in the way man
      does it. Birth and death belong to man and are realized by him. To
      realize the death of our generation and as a background of such need
      of death, to realize one's own death or to commit a death, if you
      will. Such a need – "to commit a death" seems like a commonplace, a
      usual suicide but it is this crucial point where we encounter
      especially our problem and solution of this problem rooted in a
      whole Russian culture of last two centuries. To commit a death
      presuppose a man who acts as a proper human being – to rely upon
      oneself and to be enabled only with one's own possibilities. This
      is, so to say, pre-theoretical decision – to realize one's death. We
      have known what we seek for, and certainly, we find this death at
      last.
      If we seek for not only a «need-of- death», but really need to
      realize ours, we seek for a death which can be accessible for human
      actions, we seek for death which has a real place in human history,
      both in my own as an earth way and in a whole history of humanity.
      The human death is not an instant event, such inevitable natural
      moment, but is real earth history of a man, non-being as such.
      In other words, a man can "to be", but a man can "not to be", not
      leaving earth world. So well known west "finitude" becomes a history
      for us with both a beginning and an end and the end itself turn into
      the history of end, in other words, the death as real earth history,
      that everybody enters and unfold itself not as the history of dying –
      dying entirely belongs to former Life, but as non-being. For us
      inevitable event of natural death turns into death as earth history
      of non-being. Everybody and everything enters it.
      Only such death can be accessible for me, a death as a real history
      of my non-being, the history of absolute human Rest, that everybody
      attains one day long before vanishing into thing air.
      The Rest is a most destructive history and human rest, or earth
      history of non-being, develops through self-deconstruction, and only
      in such way, a man "committing its death", can present in a history,
      in an earth world from some crucial moment of earth way.
    • eduard at home
      Death is something that, when we are not dying, is simply a matter of philosophy. Death, when we are dying, is something that we are reluctant to undergo,
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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        Death is something that, when we are not dying, is simply a matter of philosophy.

        Death, when we are dying, is something that we are reluctant to undergo, since we can think of a lot more things that need to be done. "Lord, give me one more day, as I need to finish my Japanese garden ... or clean the house ... or ride my bike around the block.

        Death, when we are dying and are tired of the dealing with daily contests, is something seen as a welcomed opportunity for rest.

        eduard
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Serge Roganov
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 3:19 PM
        Subject: [existlist] My death or death as a real earth non-being.



        The death as an instant natural event is a construction which
        appeared two centuries ago. "Natural death" is a background for
        philosophy and psychology. But this construction is dead now.
        The problem of death is neither one of "transitory nature" of human
        being, nor the one of the attitude in this or that way to the fact
        of "natural death". Man realizes his own death. Human originality
        (self-being) is in the possibility to do this and in the way man
        does it. Birth and death belong to man and are realized by him. To
        realize the death of our generation and as a background of such need
        of death, to realize one's own death or to commit a death, if you
        will. Such a need - "to commit a death" seems like a commonplace, a
        usual suicide but it is this crucial point where we encounter
        especially our problem and solution of this problem rooted in a
        whole Russian culture of last two centuries. To commit a death
        presuppose a man who acts as a proper human being - to rely upon
        oneself and to be enabled only with one's own possibilities. This
        is, so to say, pre-theoretical decision - to realize one's death. We
        have known what we seek for, and certainly, we find this death at
        last.
        If we seek for not only a «need-of- death», but really need to
        realize ours, we seek for a death which can be accessible for human
        actions, we seek for death which has a real place in human history,
        both in my own as an earth way and in a whole history of humanity.
        The human death is not an instant event, such inevitable natural
        moment, but is real earth history of a man, non-being as such.
        In other words, a man can "to be", but a man can "not to be", not
        leaving earth world. So well known west "finitude" becomes a history
        for us with both a beginning and an end and the end itself turn into
        the history of end, in other words, the death as real earth history,
        that everybody enters and unfold itself not as the history of dying -
        dying entirely belongs to former Life, but as non-being. For us
        inevitable event of natural death turns into death as earth history
        of non-being. Everybody and everything enters it.
        Only such death can be accessible for me, a death as a real history
        of my non-being, the history of absolute human Rest, that everybody
        attains one day long before vanishing into thing air.
        The Rest is a most destructive history and human rest, or earth
        history of non-being, develops through self-deconstruction, and only
        in such way, a man "committing its death", can present in a history,
        in an earth world from some crucial moment of earth way.






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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • lorrainep21@aol.com
        I agree with you! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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          I agree with you!


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mary Jo
          Serge, I think I agree with you, but I m struggling with your unique terminology. Are you saying that we personally die because we are aware of the historical
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 2, 2004
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            Serge,

            I think I agree with you, but I'm struggling with your unique
            terminology. Are you saying that we personally die because we are
            aware of the historical death (or non-being) of others? Would that
            mean that if we weren't aware of, or hadn't witnessed the death of
            others, we wouldn't know of death and wouldn't die? This is a very
            controversial concept. Is death contagious? It's a question that's
            impossible to answer now that death seems to be a universal event,
            even though you can only personally experience your own death. Do we
            deconstruct our carefully constructed personality-selves simply
            because we 'see' others dying? On the surface, such an idea seems
            unscientific; but essentially it might be true, because we really
            haven't determined WHY some organisms die when they do. Disruption
            or 'death' at some molecular level may only be a conditioned process
            reaction to a cataclysmic shock for which we have no 'solution'.
            Perhaps human dissolution is only a temporary evolutionary level.
            Observing our cosmos and its tremendous changes gives me hope in our
            potential. We can blame death on other humans, pathogens, or
            asteroids; but if we die, isn't it our own fault? For now, it seems
            that while we live, we are realized. When we die, we're not.

            Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Serge Roganov" <svroganov@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > The death as an instant natural event is a construction which
            > appeared two centuries ago. "Natural death" is a background for
            > philosophy and psychology. But this construction is dead now.
            > The problem of death is neither one of "transitory nature" of human
            > being, nor the one of the attitude in this or that way to the fact
            > of "natural death". Man realizes his own death. Human originality
            > (self-being) is in the possibility to do this and in the way man
            > does it. Birth and death belong to man and are realized by him. To
            > realize the death of our generation and as a background of such
            need
            > of death, to realize one's own death or to commit a death, if you
            > will. Such a need – "to commit a death" seems like a commonplace, a
            > usual suicide but it is this crucial point where we encounter
            > especially our problem and solution of this problem rooted in a
            > whole Russian culture of last two centuries. To commit a death
            > presuppose a man who acts as a proper human being – to rely upon
            > oneself and to be enabled only with one's own possibilities. This
            > is, so to say, pre-theoretical decision – to realize one's death.
            We
            > have known what we seek for, and certainly, we find this death at
            > last.
            > If we seek for not only a «need-of- death», but really need to
            > realize ours, we seek for a death which can be accessible for human
            > actions, we seek for death which has a real place in human history,
            > both in my own as an earth way and in a whole history of humanity.
            > The human death is not an instant event, such inevitable natural
            > moment, but is real earth history of a man, non-being as such.
            > In other words, a man can "to be", but a man can "not to be", not
            > leaving earth world. So well known west "finitude" becomes a
            history
            > for us with both a beginning and an end and the end itself turn
            into
            > the history of end, in other words, the death as real earth
            history,
            > that everybody enters and unfold itself not as the history of
            dying –
            > dying entirely belongs to former Life, but as non-being. For us
            > inevitable event of natural death turns into death as earth history
            > of non-being. Everybody and everything enters it.
            > Only such death can be accessible for me, a death as a real history
            > of my non-being, the history of absolute human Rest, that everybody
            > attains one day long before vanishing into thing air.
            > The Rest is a most destructive history and human rest, or earth
            > history of non-being, develops through self-deconstruction, and
            only
            > in such way, a man "committing its death", can present in a
            history,
            > in an earth world from some crucial moment of earth way.
          • lorrainep21@aol.com
            Yes, I can understand the latter...perhaps, it would be best if I didn t understand that to see death is seeing the end of what at times is just to much ado
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 4, 2004
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              Yes, I can understand the latter...perhaps, it would be best if I didn't
              understand that to see death is seeing the end of what at times is just to much
              ado about nothing????or just too damn hard, or simply too much pain...........
              LMP


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • bjunius30
              As I ve said before, and you can make light of this any way want, but we are only concerned with a certain number of categories in our life time: God, Time,
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 4, 2004
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                As I've said before, and you can make light of this any way want, but
                we are only concerned with a certain number of categories in our life
                time: God, Time, Death, & Experience.

                Any way you put we are at the mercy of all these things: God
                essentially meaning our birth, our spirituality, our longingness in
                the affairs of love. Time, the measurement of our flesh and corpeal
                beingness. Death the abstraction of thought brought to live with
                disdain and uncertainty or sometimes the attraction to it.
                Experience, the memories and feelings we share. The perceptions of
                our own constructs, inner and outer...,

                yes, only so many combinations...,so in essence our world multiplies
                these necessities into a higher thought of meaning and perveyance
                throughout the universe.

                Perhaps, later I might change my mind about this like Wittegstein,
                but it seems plausible and elegant to a certain degree. So far, I
                have not been able to tear it apart with my own cold scrutinizing.

                Bryan Junius, Ph.D


                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, lorrainep21@a... wrote:
                > Yes, I can understand the latter...perhaps, it would be best if I
                didn't
                > understand that to see death is seeing the end of what at times is
                just to much
                > ado about nothing????or just too damn hard, or simply too much
                pain...........
                > LMP
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • louise
                Hmmm ... So it s ok to make light? In which category(ies) does football appear? The young in our country here in the UK are encouraged to kick racism out of it
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 4, 2004
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                  Hmmm ...

                  So it's ok to make light?

                  In which category(ies) does football appear?

                  The young in our country here in the UK are encouraged to kick
                  racism out of it - in case that's relevant. There is no end to
                  debate. Unlike the Saint (Paul), I don't despise the Athenians for
                  evermore discussing each new thing. Words words words I lov'em.
                  Until they mean to hurt.

                  Even death's good if it's not the flesh.

                  Except it die ...

                  Programme about Agincourt currently showing. Map of Medieval France
                  depicted, vying camps narrated.

                  "With a weak king and a fractured state, it seemed that France was
                  ripe for the plucking ... "

                  You heard it here first.

                  Louise


                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bjunius30" <bjunius30@n...> wrote:
                  >
                  > As I've said before, and you can make light of this any way want,
                  but
                  > we are only concerned with a certain number of categories in our
                  life
                  > time: God, Time, Death, & Experience.
                  >
                  > Any way you put we are at the mercy of all these things: God
                  > essentially meaning our birth, our spirituality, our longingness
                  in
                  > the affairs of love. Time, the measurement of our flesh and
                  corpeal
                  > beingness. Death the abstraction of thought brought to live with
                  > disdain and uncertainty or sometimes the attraction to it.
                  > Experience, the memories and feelings we share. The perceptions of
                  > our own constructs, inner and outer...,
                  >
                  > yes, only so many combinations...,so in essence our world
                  multiplies
                  > these necessities into a higher thought of meaning and perveyance
                  > throughout the universe.
                  >
                  > Perhaps, later I might change my mind about this like Wittegstein,
                  > but it seems plausible and elegant to a certain degree. So far, I
                  > have not been able to tear it apart with my own cold scrutinizing.
                  >
                  > Bryan Junius, Ph.D
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, lorrainep21@a... wrote:
                  > > Yes, I can understand the latter...perhaps, it would be best if
                  I
                  > didn't
                  > > understand that to see death is seeing the end of what at times
                  is
                  > just to much
                  > > ado about nothing????or just too damn hard, or simply too much
                  > pain...........
                  > > LMP
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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