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Re: Opinion...What is the difference between fantasy and reality?

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  • Mary Jo
    Knott The players are real. In your scenario, all else is a dream. If they actually planted the tomatoes, the tomatoes would be real. The dreams of the
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 2, 2004
      "Knott"

      The players are real. In your scenario, all else is a dream. If they
      actually planted the tomatoes, the tomatoes would be real. The dreams
      of the tomatoes are not real although the dreamers are. Life as we
      know it is more like a dream. We make up games to play, but in some
      ways, acknowledging that we are playing a game is more real than
      pretending the game is real. Mary

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <god@t...> wrote:
      >
      > Here is a scenario...
      >
      > A person plays fantasy baseball. They become engrossed in the stats
      of the players.
      > the result is manipulation of standings in a game based on a game.
      the game that is
      > the game that is being played is the game the player is playing--it
      being the 'fantasy'
      > or the 'reality' of being a ballplayer--which is a fantasy for
      many. The ball player
      > dreams of planting tomatoes. The 'fantasy' player dreams of
      planting tomatoes.
      >
      > Who is playing the game and what is real?
      >
      > My answer, of course, is that nothing is real...but what is your
      fantasy?
      >
      > Cranberry Fields
    • Knott
      ... Well, there is also my game, and if one believes in such a catastrophy, gowd s game...there is the gambling done by players, and the game-within-the-game
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 6, 2004
        > This is my best interpretation of your scenario.
        > There are three games described:
        > Fantasy sports statistics
        > Fantasy baseball
        > Baseball

        Well, there is also my game, and if one believes in such a catastrophy, gowd's
        game...there is the gambling done by players, and the game-within-the-game to fix
        the games...And then there is the purposeful misinterpretation of your answer, your
        imagined reply...Unspoken games...

        Speaking of games, Duard from the dead.

        Encrypted Cryptonite
      • Knott
        ... I find that all very contradictory. Minus Minnymouse
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 6, 2004
          > The players are real. In your scenario, all else is a dream.

          > If they
          > actually planted the tomatoes, the tomatoes would be real. The dreams
          > of the tomatoes are not real although the dreamers are. Life as we
          > know it is more like a dream. We make up games to play, but in some
          > ways, acknowledging that we are playing a game is more real than
          > pretending the game is real. Mary

          I find that all very contradictory.

          Minus Minnymouse
        • louise
          my dear american god, this is where you have me at a disadvantage. beyond basic concern for the health/humanity/honour of bush/cheney/kerry/edwards, i am both
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 6, 2004
            my dear american god,

            this is where you have me at a disadvantage. beyond basic concern
            for the health/humanity/honour of bush/cheney/kerry/edwards, i am
            both disinterested and uninterested in the forthcoming presidential
            elections, except insofar as material is provided for my fantasy
            film studios in defence of free speech and the honour of the British
            monarchy.

            have also not researched what Bill called the epic blue clam/red
            clam debate. Duard is your name, i take it, for Nooist Eduard, or,
            i don't know, for Nooist eduard, anyway, that's your fantasy, male
            and mysterious to me. for to me as Nooist Louise or Nooist louise,
            Duard is not dead, nor from the dead. i don't believe in the
            concept of the 'dead philosopher', which belongs at least in part to
            the European and USA academies, and Britain, being currently stuck
            in the institutional pseudo-state known as EU, suffers alongside.

            you're formidable as mathematician/philosopher, mayhap, and gentle
            code-breaker

            i'm schizophrenic, and i work, unpaid, on the internet, answerable
            to my doctors and the protective state of my homeland

            jordan, flowing, turbid, turbulent, unenraged, encompassed


            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <god@t...> wrote:
            >
            > > This is my best interpretation of your scenario.
            > > There are three games described:
            > > Fantasy sports statistics
            > > Fantasy baseball
            > > Baseball
            >
            > Well, there is also my game, and if one believes in such a
            catastrophy, gowd's
            > game...there is the gambling done by players, and the game-within-
            the-game to fix
            > the games...And then there is the purposeful misinterpretation of
            your answer, your
            > imagined reply...Unspoken games...
            >
            > Speaking of games, Duard from the dead.
            >
            > Encrypted Cryptonite
          • Knott
            ... I disagree. I am of the opinion that my opinion doesn t matter (and like, what I just said doesn t either). I like it, but no one else should any better
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 7, 2004
              > this is where you have me at a disadvantage.

              I disagree. I am of the opinion that my opinion doesn't matter (and like, what I just
              said doesn't either). I like it, but no one else should any better than their own. It is
              incomprehensible that it is interesting for me to speak it...perhaps as a test of its
              logical validity. Perhaps your intellectual space allows you an internal check that I
              don't have the advantage of.

              > beyond basic concern
              > for the health/humanity/honour of bush/cheney/kerry/edwards, i am
              > both disinterested and uninterested in the forthcoming presidential
              > elections

              I have opinions of politics that are so radical that they upset almost everyone. I don't
              pay attention to the political throws...I choose not to believe they are real. I fail when
              the tax bill arrives. What was a hopeful idea has turned into an outlandish popularity
              contest, and what was democracy is no longer.

              My version of "everything that can go wrong..." Is "everyone with the opportunity to
              become corrupt will if they deem it a greater need". People who would be honest
              politicians would have no interest in politics. All it is is a successful marketing
              ploy...big deal. The best deception wins.

              It would perhaps please le Duard to gain office...it would be a shiney penny for his
              bottle.

              As to clams...It was a struggle between good and evil. Evil is a bad loser, and has a
              better marketing firm.

              Tearingup Floorboards
            • louise
              Wow! You fell out of bed this morning, and on the wrong side? Let me tell you, good God, I have been researching the Black Mountain poets fraternity this
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 7, 2004
                Wow! You fell out of bed this morning, and on the wrong side?

                Let me tell you, good God, I have been researching the Black
                Mountain poets fraternity this morning. To my left on the desk is
                Volume One of 'Charles Olson & Robert Creeley: The Complete
                Correspondence', edited by George Butterick, who also wrote, for
                instance, 'A Guide to the Maximus Poems ...'. There's a wonderful
                photo on the cover, of the two men (Olson was huge, wasn't he, about
                6 foot 8?), and more inside. A great picture of Robert Creeley with
                his wife Ann and son David (who looks about 3 or 4 years old), in
                Littleton, New Hampshire, 1950, and one of Charles Olson with his
                wife Constance in Washington, Spring 1950. Propped up against my
                printer, however, is a very characterful largish but slim paperback
                book published by Cape Goliard Press in 1969:
                'Charles Olson, Letters for Origin, 1950 - 1955' ed. Albert Glover.
                These are letters from Olson to Cid Corman, the magazine editor.

                This from 'a sunday (a chance) March 1952'

                Cid: Many thanks for all news--and you are right, I have trouble
                getting TIME, especially when i have been as bloody damn sick as i
                have been for the past three weeks (don't know what it is--showed up
                as a boil in the right armpit, crippling me--had that lanced, and
                penicillin shot in my arse, 600,000 units, but i remain daily below
                par: probably the Bear, & Winter, and Spring too far be--Hind!)
                .......................................................
                And my anger is--the anger of all men who write from their own
                suffering, that, you can't put us down with *schemas--you can't wag
                yr fingers--yr weak cocks--in our faces: we do what we are obliged
                to do: measure us by what you have done with what you've had to do
                with, brother: we say that to them. And if they once faced that,
                dealt with that, instead of what their light heads take off our work
                (like peeling our skin) they'd stop such shit--and find out, that
                HOW A THING IS SAID is as important as WHAT IS SAID, that *it is*
                WHAT IS SAID


                Wow! (this is living Louise speaking now), that really is telling
                them :-)

                And I saw and heard Robert Creeley at a poetry reading also, 'bout
                same year as you, I think, in the [University] Music Room very close
                to Durham Cathedral. He had a most awful hacking cough. It was
                early April. Someone gave him a lozenge, to quieten him down, but
                the bell-ringers were driving the participants nutty, anyway.
                Still, it was a good night.

                The Woman from 'Chapter 12'
                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <god@t...> wrote:
                >
                > > this is where you have me at a disadvantage.
                >
                > I disagree. I am of the opinion that my opinion doesn't matter
                (and like, what I just
                > said doesn't either). I like it, but no one else should any better
                than their own. It is
                > incomprehensible that it is interesting for me to speak
                it...perhaps as a test of its
                > logical validity. Perhaps your intellectual space allows you an
                internal check that I
                > don't have the advantage of.
                >
                > > beyond basic concern
                > > for the health/humanity/honour of bush/cheney/kerry/edwards, i
                am
                > > both disinterested and uninterested in the forthcoming
                presidential
                > > elections
                >
                > I have opinions of politics that are so radical that they upset
                almost everyone. I don't
                > pay attention to the political throws...I choose not to believe
                they are real. I fail when
                > the tax bill arrives. What was a hopeful idea has turned into an
                outlandish popularity
                > contest, and what was democracy is no longer.
                >
                > My version of "everything that can go wrong..." Is "everyone with
                the opportunity to
                > become corrupt will if they deem it a greater need". People who
                would be honest
                > politicians would have no interest in politics. All it is is a
                successful marketing
                > ploy...big deal. The best deception wins.
                >
                > It would perhaps please le Duard to gain office...it would be a
                shiney penny for his
                > bottle.
                >
                > As to clams...It was a struggle between good and evil. Evil is a
                bad loser, and has a
                > better marketing firm.
                >
                > Tearingup Floorboards
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