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Opinion...What is the difference between fantasy and reality?

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  • Knott
    Here is a scenario... A person plays fantasy baseball. They become engrossed in the stats of the players. the result is manipulation of standings in a game
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 2, 2004
      Here is a scenario...

      A person plays fantasy baseball. They become engrossed in the stats of the players.
      the result is manipulation of standings in a game based on a game. the game that is
      the game that is being played is the game the player is playing--it being the 'fantasy'
      or the 'reality' of being a ballplayer--which is a fantasy for many. The ball player
      dreams of planting tomatoes. The 'fantasy' player dreams of planting tomatoes.

      Who is playing the game and what is real?

      My answer, of course, is that nothing is real...but what is your fantasy?

      Cranberry Fields
    • louise
      Knott, This is my best interpretation of your scenario. There are three games described: Fantasy sports statistics Fantasy baseball Baseball Anyone living
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 2, 2004
        Knott,

        This is my best interpretation of your scenario.
        There are three games described:
        Fantasy sports statistics
        Fantasy baseball
        Baseball

        Anyone living realistically within whatever domain, responsibly
        doing his own job, may draw on the language and its attendant
        emotional states, in order to illuminate a matter of importance, or
        just to have fun. Criticism of such metaphors and their employment
        may also draw on these or other fields for nutriment.

        That's analysis for you. I think it has a place.

        Regine
        ... still looking for Alexander ...


        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <god@t...> wrote:
        >
        > Here is a scenario...
        >
        > A person plays fantasy baseball. They become engrossed in the
        stats of the players.
        > the result is manipulation of standings in a game based on a game.
        the game that is
        > the game that is being played is the game the player is playing--
        it being the 'fantasy'
        > or the 'reality' of being a ballplayer--which is a fantasy for
        many. The ball player
        > dreams of planting tomatoes. The 'fantasy' player dreams of
        planting tomatoes.
        >
        > Who is playing the game and what is real?
        >
        > My answer, of course, is that nothing is real...but what is your
        fantasy?
        >
        > Cranberry Fields
      • Mary Jo
        Knott The players are real. In your scenario, all else is a dream. If they actually planted the tomatoes, the tomatoes would be real. The dreams of the
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 2, 2004
          "Knott"

          The players are real. In your scenario, all else is a dream. If they
          actually planted the tomatoes, the tomatoes would be real. The dreams
          of the tomatoes are not real although the dreamers are. Life as we
          know it is more like a dream. We make up games to play, but in some
          ways, acknowledging that we are playing a game is more real than
          pretending the game is real. Mary

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <god@t...> wrote:
          >
          > Here is a scenario...
          >
          > A person plays fantasy baseball. They become engrossed in the stats
          of the players.
          > the result is manipulation of standings in a game based on a game.
          the game that is
          > the game that is being played is the game the player is playing--it
          being the 'fantasy'
          > or the 'reality' of being a ballplayer--which is a fantasy for
          many. The ball player
          > dreams of planting tomatoes. The 'fantasy' player dreams of
          planting tomatoes.
          >
          > Who is playing the game and what is real?
          >
          > My answer, of course, is that nothing is real...but what is your
          fantasy?
          >
          > Cranberry Fields
        • Knott
          ... Well, there is also my game, and if one believes in such a catastrophy, gowd s game...there is the gambling done by players, and the game-within-the-game
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 6, 2004
            > This is my best interpretation of your scenario.
            > There are three games described:
            > Fantasy sports statistics
            > Fantasy baseball
            > Baseball

            Well, there is also my game, and if one believes in such a catastrophy, gowd's
            game...there is the gambling done by players, and the game-within-the-game to fix
            the games...And then there is the purposeful misinterpretation of your answer, your
            imagined reply...Unspoken games...

            Speaking of games, Duard from the dead.

            Encrypted Cryptonite
          • Knott
            ... I find that all very contradictory. Minus Minnymouse
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 6, 2004
              > The players are real. In your scenario, all else is a dream.

              > If they
              > actually planted the tomatoes, the tomatoes would be real. The dreams
              > of the tomatoes are not real although the dreamers are. Life as we
              > know it is more like a dream. We make up games to play, but in some
              > ways, acknowledging that we are playing a game is more real than
              > pretending the game is real. Mary

              I find that all very contradictory.

              Minus Minnymouse
            • louise
              my dear american god, this is where you have me at a disadvantage. beyond basic concern for the health/humanity/honour of bush/cheney/kerry/edwards, i am both
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 6, 2004
                my dear american god,

                this is where you have me at a disadvantage. beyond basic concern
                for the health/humanity/honour of bush/cheney/kerry/edwards, i am
                both disinterested and uninterested in the forthcoming presidential
                elections, except insofar as material is provided for my fantasy
                film studios in defence of free speech and the honour of the British
                monarchy.

                have also not researched what Bill called the epic blue clam/red
                clam debate. Duard is your name, i take it, for Nooist Eduard, or,
                i don't know, for Nooist eduard, anyway, that's your fantasy, male
                and mysterious to me. for to me as Nooist Louise or Nooist louise,
                Duard is not dead, nor from the dead. i don't believe in the
                concept of the 'dead philosopher', which belongs at least in part to
                the European and USA academies, and Britain, being currently stuck
                in the institutional pseudo-state known as EU, suffers alongside.

                you're formidable as mathematician/philosopher, mayhap, and gentle
                code-breaker

                i'm schizophrenic, and i work, unpaid, on the internet, answerable
                to my doctors and the protective state of my homeland

                jordan, flowing, turbid, turbulent, unenraged, encompassed


                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <god@t...> wrote:
                >
                > > This is my best interpretation of your scenario.
                > > There are three games described:
                > > Fantasy sports statistics
                > > Fantasy baseball
                > > Baseball
                >
                > Well, there is also my game, and if one believes in such a
                catastrophy, gowd's
                > game...there is the gambling done by players, and the game-within-
                the-game to fix
                > the games...And then there is the purposeful misinterpretation of
                your answer, your
                > imagined reply...Unspoken games...
                >
                > Speaking of games, Duard from the dead.
                >
                > Encrypted Cryptonite
              • Knott
                ... I disagree. I am of the opinion that my opinion doesn t matter (and like, what I just said doesn t either). I like it, but no one else should any better
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 7, 2004
                  > this is where you have me at a disadvantage.

                  I disagree. I am of the opinion that my opinion doesn't matter (and like, what I just
                  said doesn't either). I like it, but no one else should any better than their own. It is
                  incomprehensible that it is interesting for me to speak it...perhaps as a test of its
                  logical validity. Perhaps your intellectual space allows you an internal check that I
                  don't have the advantage of.

                  > beyond basic concern
                  > for the health/humanity/honour of bush/cheney/kerry/edwards, i am
                  > both disinterested and uninterested in the forthcoming presidential
                  > elections

                  I have opinions of politics that are so radical that they upset almost everyone. I don't
                  pay attention to the political throws...I choose not to believe they are real. I fail when
                  the tax bill arrives. What was a hopeful idea has turned into an outlandish popularity
                  contest, and what was democracy is no longer.

                  My version of "everything that can go wrong..." Is "everyone with the opportunity to
                  become corrupt will if they deem it a greater need". People who would be honest
                  politicians would have no interest in politics. All it is is a successful marketing
                  ploy...big deal. The best deception wins.

                  It would perhaps please le Duard to gain office...it would be a shiney penny for his
                  bottle.

                  As to clams...It was a struggle between good and evil. Evil is a bad loser, and has a
                  better marketing firm.

                  Tearingup Floorboards
                • louise
                  Wow! You fell out of bed this morning, and on the wrong side? Let me tell you, good God, I have been researching the Black Mountain poets fraternity this
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 7, 2004
                    Wow! You fell out of bed this morning, and on the wrong side?

                    Let me tell you, good God, I have been researching the Black
                    Mountain poets fraternity this morning. To my left on the desk is
                    Volume One of 'Charles Olson & Robert Creeley: The Complete
                    Correspondence', edited by George Butterick, who also wrote, for
                    instance, 'A Guide to the Maximus Poems ...'. There's a wonderful
                    photo on the cover, of the two men (Olson was huge, wasn't he, about
                    6 foot 8?), and more inside. A great picture of Robert Creeley with
                    his wife Ann and son David (who looks about 3 or 4 years old), in
                    Littleton, New Hampshire, 1950, and one of Charles Olson with his
                    wife Constance in Washington, Spring 1950. Propped up against my
                    printer, however, is a very characterful largish but slim paperback
                    book published by Cape Goliard Press in 1969:
                    'Charles Olson, Letters for Origin, 1950 - 1955' ed. Albert Glover.
                    These are letters from Olson to Cid Corman, the magazine editor.

                    This from 'a sunday (a chance) March 1952'

                    Cid: Many thanks for all news--and you are right, I have trouble
                    getting TIME, especially when i have been as bloody damn sick as i
                    have been for the past three weeks (don't know what it is--showed up
                    as a boil in the right armpit, crippling me--had that lanced, and
                    penicillin shot in my arse, 600,000 units, but i remain daily below
                    par: probably the Bear, & Winter, and Spring too far be--Hind!)
                    .......................................................
                    And my anger is--the anger of all men who write from their own
                    suffering, that, you can't put us down with *schemas--you can't wag
                    yr fingers--yr weak cocks--in our faces: we do what we are obliged
                    to do: measure us by what you have done with what you've had to do
                    with, brother: we say that to them. And if they once faced that,
                    dealt with that, instead of what their light heads take off our work
                    (like peeling our skin) they'd stop such shit--and find out, that
                    HOW A THING IS SAID is as important as WHAT IS SAID, that *it is*
                    WHAT IS SAID


                    Wow! (this is living Louise speaking now), that really is telling
                    them :-)

                    And I saw and heard Robert Creeley at a poetry reading also, 'bout
                    same year as you, I think, in the [University] Music Room very close
                    to Durham Cathedral. He had a most awful hacking cough. It was
                    early April. Someone gave him a lozenge, to quieten him down, but
                    the bell-ringers were driving the participants nutty, anyway.
                    Still, it was a good night.

                    The Woman from 'Chapter 12'
                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Knott" <god@t...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > this is where you have me at a disadvantage.
                    >
                    > I disagree. I am of the opinion that my opinion doesn't matter
                    (and like, what I just
                    > said doesn't either). I like it, but no one else should any better
                    than their own. It is
                    > incomprehensible that it is interesting for me to speak
                    it...perhaps as a test of its
                    > logical validity. Perhaps your intellectual space allows you an
                    internal check that I
                    > don't have the advantage of.
                    >
                    > > beyond basic concern
                    > > for the health/humanity/honour of bush/cheney/kerry/edwards, i
                    am
                    > > both disinterested and uninterested in the forthcoming
                    presidential
                    > > elections
                    >
                    > I have opinions of politics that are so radical that they upset
                    almost everyone. I don't
                    > pay attention to the political throws...I choose not to believe
                    they are real. I fail when
                    > the tax bill arrives. What was a hopeful idea has turned into an
                    outlandish popularity
                    > contest, and what was democracy is no longer.
                    >
                    > My version of "everything that can go wrong..." Is "everyone with
                    the opportunity to
                    > become corrupt will if they deem it a greater need". People who
                    would be honest
                    > politicians would have no interest in politics. All it is is a
                    successful marketing
                    > ploy...big deal. The best deception wins.
                    >
                    > It would perhaps please le Duard to gain office...it would be a
                    shiney penny for his
                    > bottle.
                    >
                    > As to clams...It was a struggle between good and evil. Evil is a
                    bad loser, and has a
                    > better marketing firm.
                    >
                    > Tearingup Floorboards
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