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RE: [existlist] certainty of meaning

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  • Eduard Alf
    james, At times you seem to want to come out fighting. As if this is a necessary component of discussion. All I did was to pose a thought experiment, and get
    Message 1 of 58 , Aug 1, 2001
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      james,

      At times you seem to want to come out fighting.
      As if this is a necessary component of discussion.
      All I did was to pose a thought experiment, and
      get replies of "eduard's 'superior' intellect",
      "eduard's limitation", "and eduard, move on with
      life", "more significance than eduard is able to
      realise", etc.

      I do not believe that I deserve that kind of
      degrading tone. The existlist group is not a
      venue for a life and death struggle. All we are
      doing here is conducting a discussion, so please
      be a bit less hard on me.

      The thought experiment was to try to see if we
      could arrive at some way of proving a
      transcendental god that is independent of humans.
      I totally agree with you that persons who are put
      into a traumatic situation, such as a
      concentration camp, do seek out a god to provide a
      means of survival. But you have not shown that
      this god is independent of their perceptions.
      That the god would disappear as easily as the end
      of a movie from a theatre screen. I would suggest
      that the projector/screen is a closed system, and
      that the human/god relationship is the same.

      What I am drawing towards is an understanding of
      the concept of "freedom" of choice and by this to
      make ones world. If a god exists independently of
      humans, then I would suggest that there is not a
      freedom of choice. In this I mean a god in the
      conventional sense for which there is a divine
      relationship with the worshippers. If god exists,
      then it would stand to reason that some choices
      are not within our capability to make. For
      example, there is a commandment of, "Thou shalt
      have no other gods before me". If god exists,
      then one cant make a choice to adopt an
      alternative god. But if god does not exist, then
      you can make any god you wish and there is
      complete freedom of choice.

      eduard
    • C. S. Wyatt
      No one knows anything beyond what he or she experiences. All else is faith and / or bias. As far as I can tell, everything is a matter of meaning and intent.
      Message 58 of 58 , Aug 2, 2001
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        No one "knows" anything beyond what he or she experiences. All else is faith
        and / or bias.

        As far as I can tell, everything is a matter of meaning and intent. I have a
        great deal of faith that there are things greater and more important than
        mankind, though I dare not try to name that which is above man. (My Judaic
        bias, with some pagan "universe" worship.)

        From my web site:

        Logic has too many definitions to use the term without referencing the
        logical model being utilized in analysis. I tend to favor phenomenological,
        mathematical, or scientific logic. These conflict with other models due to
        their reliance upon individual proofs -- the proofs human beings can
        understand. In other words, what I cannot prove to myself, I cannot accept
        on a logical basis -- but I can accept on faith.

        Faith is important to me and most other humans. Faith and logic are, at
        least using the definitions utilized in modern philosophy, at odds but not
        exclusive: eventually I might prove those concepts in which I have faith.
        Faith is "accepting as fact that which cannot be mathematically or
        scientifically proven beyond all doubt." Notice the phrase "all doubt" and
        its importance.

        Ethics: (1) The study and philosophy of human conduct with emphasis on the
        determination of right and wrong. (2) A system of morals.

        Moral: (1) Based on probability; generalized human behavior. (2) Conforming
        to group standards of conduct.

        Justice: (1) The rendering of what is due or merited. (2) Being impartial.
        (3) Honest or equitable.

        Truth: (1) Conformity to requirements. (2) Faith in a statement's logic. (3)
        Conforming to a system of rules.

        - C. S.
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