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RE: [existlist] certainty of meaning

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  • Eduard Alf
    Tony, You are adding a circular qualification. Of course, if god is a construct, then when the society goes then, so does the god. That is just logical. Your
    Message 1 of 58 , Aug 1, 2001
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      Tony,

      You are adding a circular qualification. Of
      course, if god is a construct, then when the
      society goes then, so does the god. That is just
      logical.

      Your second point in that if a literature source
      is found, certainly it might revive. But then I
      could easily argue that this revival in itself is
      dependent upon the society and when it goes, so
      does the god. So we are back to the original
      premise.

      No. I cannot accept your counter arguement on
      Taliban. My original premise was that the world
      consisted only of one religion; that of
      Christianity. I am ok if you wish to change this
      to the Muslim religion. But then the thought
      experiment applies to a world in which there is
      only this religion.

      My premise is that there is not a god which exists
      outside of the human experience, and indeed it is
      this experience which cycles and creates the god
      in the first place. And in this sense "meaning"
      is only certain within the context of a belief
      system which is successful [i.e. enables us to
      survive with fulfillment of whatever needs we may
      wish to have fulfilled]. There is no basis of
      rational proof to say that there is a
      transcendental god. or even an immanent god.
      Thus the existentialist has the ability to choose
      and create whatever world he/she desires. And the
      reality is whatever, he/she chooses to accept.

      eduard

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Tony Lea [mailto:tonylea@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:18 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [existlist] certainty of meaning

      > the question is then: does the god die with the
      > people? And here "dying" means what we commonly
      > think it is: the end the object, entity,
      whatever.

      I think so. If the god is purely a construct of
      the society and has no
      relevance once that society is gone, then it
      "dies." If some of the
      artifacts and literature survive and are
      discovered by another society, then
      it will, at least in a cultural, if not actual
      sense, live on.

      Unless, of course, the succeeding society is the
      Taliban ("if you see the
      statue of the Buddha, blow it up"). Then, the
      religion wouldn't survive -
      even as an art movement.
      >
      > that we create or gods and
      > that is the only way they can exist.

      Some say that religions were invented to provide a
      moral guide to socially
      acceptable behaviour. ("If God didn't exist, it
      would be necessary to invent
      him").

      Tony
    • C. S. Wyatt
      No one knows anything beyond what he or she experiences. All else is faith and / or bias. As far as I can tell, everything is a matter of meaning and intent.
      Message 58 of 58 , Aug 2, 2001
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        No one "knows" anything beyond what he or she experiences. All else is faith
        and / or bias.

        As far as I can tell, everything is a matter of meaning and intent. I have a
        great deal of faith that there are things greater and more important than
        mankind, though I dare not try to name that which is above man. (My Judaic
        bias, with some pagan "universe" worship.)

        From my web site:

        Logic has too many definitions to use the term without referencing the
        logical model being utilized in analysis. I tend to favor phenomenological,
        mathematical, or scientific logic. These conflict with other models due to
        their reliance upon individual proofs -- the proofs human beings can
        understand. In other words, what I cannot prove to myself, I cannot accept
        on a logical basis -- but I can accept on faith.

        Faith is important to me and most other humans. Faith and logic are, at
        least using the definitions utilized in modern philosophy, at odds but not
        exclusive: eventually I might prove those concepts in which I have faith.
        Faith is "accepting as fact that which cannot be mathematically or
        scientifically proven beyond all doubt." Notice the phrase "all doubt" and
        its importance.

        Ethics: (1) The study and philosophy of human conduct with emphasis on the
        determination of right and wrong. (2) A system of morals.

        Moral: (1) Based on probability; generalized human behavior. (2) Conforming
        to group standards of conduct.

        Justice: (1) The rendering of what is due or merited. (2) Being impartial.
        (3) Honest or equitable.

        Truth: (1) Conformity to requirements. (2) Faith in a statement's logic. (3)
        Conforming to a system of rules.

        - C. S.
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