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Re: [existlist] Music, Sartre

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  • Nicole Schultheis
    Bill, et al., I ve been extraordinarily stressed out of late and have not had time to read many posts or respond. Also it seems the list has evolved into a
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 24, 2004
      Bill, et al.,

      I've been extraordinarily stressed out of late and have not had time to read many posts or respond. Also it seems the list has evolved into a private conversation among 3-4 people, which is unfortunate.

      Here's some music that has done a lot for me since I have had to assume responsibility for caring for both of my aging, infirm parents and clearing out and selling their home of 50+ years:

      Oi Va Voi, Laughter Through Tears (2003).

      Also (mixing threads from different posts), what would Ariadne say to the notion that history is irrelevant? It's our only way of comprehending and conquering the "what is." I know time doesn't really exist, but we are only human and we perceive time as something real because that's all we're capable of as creatures. For us, without history, stuff pretty soon loses all meaning, we are truly powerless, and the little light inside us goes out.

      Oi Va Voi's music is full of history, and it lives.
      My favorite track is #2, Yesterday's Mistakes.

      I am only now beginning to understand what the commandment, Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother, really means. I do not feel powerless although there is a certain inevitability at the core of my task.

      Paradoxically, I am now cured of my midlife crisis and concomitant feelings of pointlessness. I am also cured of my habit of saving plastic containers.

      nik
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: bhvwd
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:02 AM
      Subject: [existlist] Music


      Mary, I have used music as a coping mechanism but since it is nearly
      dead I find the oldies more and more repetative. Over the weekend
      one friend was mercifully euthanised in Minnesota and another tried
      to take himself out here. I just do not feel much from these
      situations. There are chores to be done in response to death and
      suicide but the impact is just no longer there. It is like I have
      undergone a great flattening of the emotional plain. It is like
      building a resistance to a strong toxin.
      I do not feel remorse that the shock is mostly removed from
      untoward situations. Should the fun and excitement fade from the
      things I enjoy I think I would worry. I still look forward to many
      of my old enjoyments. At the end of this week we will begin a
      extended motor trip to look for that place in the sun. I have become
      more careful because I do not want to die having only been a draught
      horse.
      Kieth Moon drove a car into a swimming pool on this date in 1968
      and Vesuvius took out Herculaenum and Pompeii also Russle Crowe bit
      off the ear of his body guard in a brawl. These reports of
      violence, chaos and stupidity fit my attitude as I think over the
      biography of Bin laden I viewed last night. In consort with the very
      real statement that all on this list are essentially powerless to
      cause change on a great scale so I repeat my less than hopeful
      refrain, Save Yourself. Bill


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bartley, Michael
      . I know time doesn t really exist, but we are only human and we perceive time as something real because that s all we re capable of as creatures First off
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 24, 2004
        ." I know time doesn't really exist, but we are only human and we perceive
        time as something real because that's all we're capable of as creatures

        First off Nicole I am sorry about the pain that you are going through now,
        I think it would be painful to care for your parents to have the
        responsibility of taking responsibility for selling the family home. At the
        same time from what you wrote it seems to have become a very meaningful
        experience for you and for that I am happy for you. It seems for me that
        when life becomes painful it can also become very meaningful.

        I found your statement about time to be very though provoking. I don't
        think I totally agree with it. I've been reading a lot of books, including
        one by Green ( I don't remember his first name, sign of my old age) called
        the Fabric of the Cosmos in which he talks about time and the direction of
        time. Now I am reading Cosmic Evolution by Eric Chaisson that talks about
        the same topic. However I think for human reality, something that Sartre
        talked about time is different then physics talk about. Thank you for
        sharing. I would also like to others write on this line. Not that Bill and
        Mary don't have interesting things to say.
        Michael

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Nicole Schultheis [mailto:nschulth@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:11 AM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [existlist] Music, Sartre

        Bill, et al.,

        I've been extraordinarily stressed out of late and have not had time to read
        many posts or respond. Also it seems the list has evolved into a private
        conversation among 3-4 people, which is unfortunate.

        Here's some music that has done a lot for me since I have had to assume
        responsibility for caring for both of my aging, infirm parents and clearing
        out and selling their home of 50+ years:

        Oi Va Voi, Laughter Through Tears (2003).

        Also (mixing threads from different posts), what would Ariadne say to the
        notion that history is irrelevant? It's our only way of comprehending and
        conquering the "what is." I know time doesn't really exist, but we are only
        human and we perceive time as something real because that's all we're
        capable of as creatures. For us, without history, stuff pretty soon loses
        all meaning, we are truly powerless, and the little light inside us goes
        out.

        Oi Va Voi's music is full of history, and it lives.
        My favorite track is #2, Yesterday's Mistakes.

        I am only now beginning to understand what the commandment, Honor Thy Father
        and Thy Mother, really means. I do not feel powerless although there is a
        certain inevitability at the core of my task.

        Paradoxically, I am now cured of my midlife crisis and concomitant feelings
        of pointlessness. I am also cured of my habit of saving plastic containers.


        nik
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: bhvwd
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:02 AM
        Subject: [existlist] Music


        Mary, I have used music as a coping mechanism but since it is nearly
        dead I find the oldies more and more repetative. Over the weekend
        one friend was mercifully euthanised in Minnesota and another tried
        to take himself out here. I just do not feel much from these
        situations. There are chores to be done in response to death and
        suicide but the impact is just no longer there. It is like I have
        undergone a great flattening of the emotional plain. It is like
        building a resistance to a strong toxin.
        I do not feel remorse that the shock is mostly removed from
        untoward situations. Should the fun and excitement fade from the
        things I enjoy I think I would worry. I still look forward to many
        of my old enjoyments. At the end of this week we will begin a
        extended motor trip to look for that place in the sun. I have become
        more careful because I do not want to die having only been a draught
        horse.
        Kieth Moon drove a car into a swimming pool on this date in 1968
        and Vesuvius took out Herculaenum and Pompeii also Russle Crowe bit
        off the ear of his body guard in a brawl. These reports of
        violence, chaos and stupidity fit my attitude as I think over the
        biography of Bin laden I viewed last night. In consort with the very
        real statement that all on this list are essentially powerless to
        cause change on a great scale so I repeat my less than hopeful
        refrain, Save Yourself. Bill


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Nicole Schultheis
        Michael: Enjoyed your reply. Check out IntegralNaked.org... wonder how Ken Wilbur strikes you. Nik I found your statement about time to be very though
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 25, 2004
          Michael: Enjoyed your reply. Check out IntegralNaked.org... wonder how Ken Wilbur strikes you.

          Nik
          I found your statement about time to be very though provoking. I don't
          think I totally agree with it. I've been reading a lot of books, including
          one by Green ( I don't remember his first name, sign of my old age) called
          the Fabric of the Cosmos in which he talks about time and the direction of
          time. Now I am reading Cosmic Evolution by Eric Chaisson that talks about
          the same topic.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • louise
          Is that the weirdo Ken Wilber who thinks Tony Blair is a colossus bestriding the Atlantic?? Louise the Britisher ... wonder how Ken Wilbur strikes you. ... I
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 25, 2004
            Is that the weirdo Ken Wilber who thinks Tony Blair is a colossus
            bestriding the Atlantic??
            Louise the Britisher

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
            <nschulth@i...> wrote:
            > Michael: Enjoyed your reply. Check out IntegralNaked.org...
            wonder how Ken Wilbur strikes you.
            >
            > Nik
            > I found your statement about time to be very though provoking.
            I don't
            > think I totally agree with it. I've been reading a lot of
            books, including
            > one by Green ( I don't remember his first name, sign of my old
            age) called
            > the Fabric of the Cosmos in which he talks about time and the
            direction of
            > time. Now I am reading Cosmic Evolution by Eric Chaisson that
            talks about
            > the same topic.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mary Jo
            Hello Michael, I always enjoy your posts. For some reason I ve yet to grasp, some people get really angry or contentious whenever I mention The Blue Rose
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 25, 2004
              Hello Michael,

              I always enjoy your posts. For some reason I've yet to grasp, some
              people get really angry or contentious whenever I mention "The Blue
              Rose Project", but one of the themes is Time. If you can get through
              the poetry and the fact that the author is trying to describe the
              very beginning of human consciousness and not our present level of
              consciousness, you might find it interesting. Thank you always for
              your thoughtful and sensitive posts, no matter what Bill might
              think :-) Actually, I've grown to appreciate his individuality and
              pragmatism. We're all so gloriously different.

              <http://www.angelfire.com/art/besidecoldwater/prj1/>

              With kind regards,
              Mary Jo



              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bartley, Michael"
              <michael.bartley@m...> wrote:
              > ." I know time doesn't really exist, but we are only human and we
              perceive
              > time as something real because that's all we're capable of as
              creatures
              >
              > First off Nicole I am sorry about the pain that you are going
              through now,
              > I think it would be painful to care for your parents to have the
              > responsibility of taking responsibility for selling the family
              home. At the
              > same time from what you wrote it seems to have become a very
              meaningful
              > experience for you and for that I am happy for you. It seems for
              me that
              > when life becomes painful it can also become very meaningful.
              >
              > I found your statement about time to be very though provoking. I
              don't
              > think I totally agree with it. I've been reading a lot of books,
              including
              > one by Green ( I don't remember his first name, sign of my old age)
              called
              > the Fabric of the Cosmos in which he talks about time and the
              direction of
              > time. Now I am reading Cosmic Evolution by Eric Chaisson that
              talks about
              > the same topic. However I think for human reality, something that
              Sartre
              > talked about time is different then physics talk about. Thank you
              for
              > sharing. I would also like to others write on this line. Not that
              Bill and
              > Mary don't have interesting things to say.
              > Michael
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Nicole Schultheis [mailto:nschulth@i...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:11 AM
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [existlist] Music, Sartre
              >
              > Bill, et al.,
              >
              > I've been extraordinarily stressed out of late and have not had
              time to read
              > many posts or respond. Also it seems the list has evolved into a
              private
              > conversation among 3-4 people, which is unfortunate.
              >
              > Here's some music that has done a lot for me since I have had to
              assume
              > responsibility for caring for both of my aging, infirm parents and
              clearing
              > out and selling their home of 50+ years:
              >
              > Oi Va Voi, Laughter Through Tears (2003).
              >
              > Also (mixing threads from different posts), what would Ariadne say
              to the
              > notion that history is irrelevant? It's our only way of
              comprehending and
              > conquering the "what is." I know time doesn't really exist, but we
              are only
              > human and we perceive time as something real because that's all
              we're
              > capable of as creatures. For us, without history, stuff pretty soon
              loses
              > all meaning, we are truly powerless, and the little light inside us
              goes
              > out.
              >
              > Oi Va Voi's music is full of history, and it lives.
              > My favorite track is #2, Yesterday's Mistakes.
              >
              > I am only now beginning to understand what the commandment, Honor
              Thy Father
              > and Thy Mother, really means. I do not feel powerless although
              there is a
              > certain inevitability at the core of my task.
              >
              > Paradoxically, I am now cured of my midlife crisis and concomitant
              feelings
              > of pointlessness. I am also cured of my habit of saving plastic
              containers.
              >
              >
              > nik
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: bhvwd
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:02 AM
              > Subject: [existlist] Music
              >
              >
              > Mary, I have used music as a coping mechanism but since it is
              nearly
              > dead I find the oldies more and more repetative. Over the weekend
              > one friend was mercifully euthanised in Minnesota and another
              tried
              > to take himself out here. I just do not feel much from these
              > situations. There are chores to be done in response to death and
              > suicide but the impact is just no longer there. It is like I have
              > undergone a great flattening of the emotional plain. It is like
              > building a resistance to a strong toxin.
              > I do not feel remorse that the shock is mostly removed from
              > untoward situations. Should the fun and excitement fade from the
              > things I enjoy I think I would worry. I still look forward to
              many
              > of my old enjoyments. At the end of this week we will begin a
              > extended motor trip to look for that place in the sun. I have
              become
              > more careful because I do not want to die having only been a
              draught
              > horse.
              > Kieth Moon drove a car into a swimming pool on this date in 1968
              > and Vesuvius took out Herculaenum and Pompeii also Russle Crowe
              bit
              > off the ear of his body guard in a brawl. These reports of
              > violence, chaos and stupidity fit my attitude as I think over
              the
              > biography of Bin laden I viewed last night. In consort with the
              very
              > real statement that all on this list are essentially powerless
              to
              > cause change on a great scale so I repeat my less than hopeful
              > refrain, Save Yourself. Bill
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Susan Schnelbach
              All right, everyone. Let s drop the Nooism, name-calling, emotional talk. It s time to return to topic, or at least to something closely resembling on topic.
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 25, 2004
                All right, everyone. Let's drop the Nooism, name-calling, emotional
                talk. It's time to return to topic, or at least to something closely
                resembling 'on topic.'

                How about we all discuss what books we're reading and how they might be
                existential. Or discuss anything new coming out about the classic
                existentialists.

                Anyone else have any topic ideas?

                Susan
              • Nicole Schultheis
                don t think so. am not aware he has any politics, but i will look. n ... From: louise To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:56 PM
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 26, 2004
                  don't think so. am not aware he has any politics, but i will look.

                  n
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: louise
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:56 PM
                  Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre


                  Is that the weirdo Ken Wilber who thinks Tony Blair is a colossus
                  bestriding the Atlantic??
                  Louise the Britisher



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • louise
                  Nicole, He s another of those well-meaning incompletely-informed (neo- Fascist) thinkers I ve had my gutful of, I suppose. Researched him before I reached
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 26, 2004
                    Nicole,
                    He's another of those well-meaning incompletely-informed (neo-
                    Fascist) thinkers I've had my gutful of, I suppose. Researched him
                    before I reached existlist at the end of January.
                    This is the site in question:
                    http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/misc.iraq.cfm
                    And the quotation from within that interview, 14 April 2003:

                    "Blair, almost single-handedly, is sitting between America and
                    Europe and screaming at both of them: you cannot* start competing
                    and fighting with each other - that road leads to more nightmares
                    than you can imagine. Like a pan-Atlantic colossus at Rhodes, Blair
                    has one foot in America and one foot in Europe ... "

                    I suppose the guy does have a point. If you were sitting in the
                    ocean with a foot in each continent, you'd have some reason to
                    scream. I've done some screaming in my time, but generally it's
                    what makes people want to lock me away. Politics is an odd
                    business, and all must be done by due process.

                    Louise

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
                    <nschulth@i...> wrote:
                    > don't think so. am not aware he has any politics, but i will look.
                    >
                    > n
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: louise
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:56 PM
                    > Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre
                    >
                    >
                    > Is that the weirdo Ken Wilber who thinks Tony Blair is a
                    colossus
                    > bestriding the Atlantic??
                    > Louise the Britisher
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bartley, Michael
                    NiK, I tried linking to the web site you sent me it didn t come up. Could you check on the address I of course may of put it wrong. I hope you are doing
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 26, 2004
                      NiK, I tried linking to the web site you sent me it didn't come up. Could
                      you check on the address I of course may of put it wrong. I hope you are
                      doing well, Remember to take care of yourself, something caregivers don't
                      always do very well.
                      Michael

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Nicole Schultheis [mailto:nschulth@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:19 AM
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] Music, Sartre

                      Michael: Enjoyed your reply. Check out IntegralNaked.org... wonder how
                      Ken Wilbur strikes you.

                      Nik
                      I found your statement about time to be very though provoking. I don't
                      think I totally agree with it. I've been reading a lot of books,
                      including
                      one by Green ( I don't remember his first name, sign of my old age) called
                      the Fabric of the Cosmos in which he talks about time and the direction of
                      time. Now I am reading Cosmic Evolution by Eric Chaisson that talks about
                      the same topic.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                      (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • louise
                      Yes, I found the link I supplied didn t work either. If you go to: http://wilber.shambala.com I think that might work. For my link, click on The War in
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 26, 2004
                        Yes, I found the link I supplied didn't work either. If you go to:
                        http://wilber.shambala.com
                        I think that might work. For my link, click on 'The War in Iraq'.
                        Actually, Ken Wilber has a very active and interesting mind. I do
                        get very emotional about the continuing bloodshed there - it has all
                        been going on so long.
                        Louise

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bartley, Michael"
                        <michael.bartley@m...> wrote:
                        > NiK, I tried linking to the web site you sent me it didn't come
                        up. Could
                        > you check on the address I of course may of put it wrong. I hope
                        you are
                        > doing well, Remember to take care of yourself, something
                        caregivers don't
                        > always do very well.
                        > Michael
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Nicole Schultheis [mailto:nschulth@i...]
                        > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:19 AM
                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [existlist] Music, Sartre
                        >
                        > Michael: Enjoyed your reply. Check out IntegralNaked.org...
                        wonder how
                        > Ken Wilbur strikes you.
                        >
                        > Nik
                        > I found your statement about time to be very though provoking.
                        I don't
                        > think I totally agree with it. I've been reading a lot of books,
                        > including
                        > one by Green ( I don't remember his first name, sign of my old
                        age) called
                        > the Fabric of the Cosmos in which he talks about time and the
                        direction of
                        > time. Now I am reading Cosmic Evolution by Eric Chaisson that
                        talks about
                        > the same topic.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • louise
                        oh flip, that doesn t work either. missed off the stroke [/] after com or just type ken wilber into yahoo search engine and click on number one. louise,
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 26, 2004
                          oh flip, that doesn't work either. missed off the 'stroke' [/]
                          after com
                          or just type ken wilber into yahoo search engine and click on number
                          one.
                          louise, technonoobie, persisting ...

                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
                          > Yes, I found the link I supplied didn't work either. If you go to:
                          > http://wilber.shambala.com
                          > I think that might work. For my link, click on 'The War in
                          Iraq'.
                          > Actually, Ken Wilber has a very active and interesting mind. I do
                          > get very emotional about the continuing bloodshed there - it has
                          all
                          > been going on so long.
                          > Louise
                          >
                          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bartley, Michael"
                          > <michael.bartley@m...> wrote:
                          > > NiK, I tried linking to the web site you sent me it didn't come
                          > up. Could
                          > > you check on the address I of course may of put it wrong. I
                          hope
                          > you are
                          > > doing well, Remember to take care of yourself, something
                          > caregivers don't
                          > > always do very well.
                          > > Michael
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: Nicole Schultheis [mailto:nschulth@i...]
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:19 AM
                          > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Music, Sartre
                          > >
                          > > Michael: Enjoyed your reply. Check out IntegralNaked.org...
                          > wonder how
                          > > Ken Wilbur strikes you.
                          > >
                          > > Nik
                          > > I found your statement about time to be very though
                          provoking.
                          > I don't
                          > > think I totally agree with it. I've been reading a lot of
                          books,
                          > > including
                          > > one by Green ( I don't remember his first name, sign of my old
                          > age) called
                          > > the Fabric of the Cosmos in which he talks about time and the
                          > direction of
                          > > time. Now I am reading Cosmic Evolution by Eric Chaisson that
                          > talks about
                          > > the same topic.
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                          > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • louise
                          scream !!!! shambhala is how it s spelt. will this do? http://wilber.shambhala.com/ anon. ... number ... do ... come ... old ... the ... that
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 26, 2004
                            scream !!!!
                            shambhala is how it's spelt.
                            will this do?
                            http://wilber.shambhala.com/

                            anon.

                            - In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
                            > oh flip, that doesn't work either. missed off the 'stroke' [/]
                            > after com
                            > or just type ken wilber into yahoo search engine and click on
                            number
                            > one.
                            > louise, technonoobie, persisting ...
                            >
                            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...>
                            wrote:
                            > > Yes, I found the link I supplied didn't work either. If you go
                            to:
                            > > http://wilber.shambala.com
                            > > I think that might work. For my link, click on 'The War in
                            > Iraq'.
                            > > Actually, Ken Wilber has a very active and interesting mind. I
                            do
                            > > get very emotional about the continuing bloodshed there - it has
                            > all
                            > > been going on so long.
                            > > Louise
                            > >
                            > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bartley, Michael"
                            > > <michael.bartley@m...> wrote:
                            > > > NiK, I tried linking to the web site you sent me it didn't
                            come
                            > > up. Could
                            > > > you check on the address I of course may of put it wrong. I
                            > hope
                            > > you are
                            > > > doing well, Remember to take care of yourself, something
                            > > caregivers don't
                            > > > always do very well.
                            > > > Michael
                            > > >
                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > From: Nicole Schultheis [mailto:nschulth@i...]
                            > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:19 AM
                            > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Music, Sartre
                            > > >
                            > > > Michael: Enjoyed your reply. Check out IntegralNaked.org...
                            > > wonder how
                            > > > Ken Wilbur strikes you.
                            > > >
                            > > > Nik
                            > > > I found your statement about time to be very though
                            > provoking.
                            > > I don't
                            > > > think I totally agree with it. I've been reading a lot of
                            > books,
                            > > > including
                            > > > one by Green ( I don't remember his first name, sign of my
                            old
                            > > age) called
                            > > > the Fabric of the Cosmos in which he talks about time and
                            the
                            > > direction of
                            > > > time. Now I am reading Cosmic Evolution by Eric Chaisson
                            that
                            > > talks about
                            > > > the same topic.
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                            > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Nicole Schultheis
                            well he s a little weird, but i would not label him neofascist. he s sort of elistist, intellectually, but there s a lot of that going around, even among
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 26, 2004
                              well he's a little weird, but i would not label him neofascist. he's sort of elistist, intellectually, but there's a lot of that going around, even among those with impeccable intentions. to me he seems a bit more informed than most, and it's my view we're all incompletely informed.
                              actually my opinion of him is not yet formed. i've just subscribed to integralnaked because the movie clips seemed interesting.

                              n

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: louise
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:22 AM
                              Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre


                              Nicole,
                              He's another of those well-meaning incompletely-informed (neo-
                              Fascist) thinkers I've had my gutful of, I suppose. Researched him
                              before I reached existlist at the end of January.
                              This is the site in question:
                              http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/misc.iraq.cfm
                              And the quotation from within that interview, 14 April 2003:

                              "Blair, almost single-handedly, is sitting between America and
                              Europe and screaming at both of them: you cannot* start competing
                              and fighting with each other - that road leads to more nightmares
                              than you can imagine. Like a pan-Atlantic colossus at Rhodes, Blair
                              has one foot in America and one foot in Europe ... "

                              I suppose the guy does have a point. If you were sitting in the
                              ocean with a foot in each continent, you'd have some reason to
                              scream. I've done some screaming in my time, but generally it's
                              what makes people want to lock me away. Politics is an odd
                              business, and all must be done by due process.

                              Louise

                              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
                              <nschulth@i...> wrote:
                              > don't think so. am not aware he has any politics, but i will look.
                              >
                              > n
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: louise
                              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:56 PM
                              > Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre
                              >
                              >
                              > Is that the weirdo Ken Wilber who thinks Tony Blair is a
                              colossus
                              > bestriding the Atlantic??
                              > Louise the Britisher
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Nicole Schultheis
                              try here: http://integralnaked.org/index.html thanks for your concern for my wellbeing... i have fallen off the wagon a bit with diet and exercise, but do try
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 26, 2004
                                try here: http://integralnaked.org/index.html
                                thanks for your concern for my wellbeing... i have fallen off the wagon a bit with diet and exercise, but do try to save time for myself each day and take long walks with my mp3 player. listening to a variety of philosophy and psychology and history lectures.

                                n
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Bartley, Michael
                                To: 'existlist@yahoogroups.com'
                                Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:16 PM
                                Subject: RE: [existlist] Music, Sartre


                                NiK, I tried linking to the web site you sent me it didn't come up. Could
                                you check on the address I of course may of put it wrong. I hope you are
                                doing well, Remember to take care of yourself, something caregivers don't
                                always do very well.
                                Michael


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • louise
                                Nicole, It seems to me that few people if any on this list can really understand or sympathise with what I feel about events in Iraq and Kuwait, 1990 - 2004.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 27, 2004
                                  Nicole,
                                  It seems to me that few people if any on this list can really
                                  understand or sympathise with what I feel about events in Iraq and
                                  Kuwait, 1990 - 2004. There is most definitely a British connection,
                                  both historically, and insofar as British troops and civilians have
                                  died or been in danger there, and continue to be so.
                                  At the time I read Ken Wilber's piece (I think it's an interview,
                                  isn't it?) about the 'Iraq war', I realised at least that I am
                                  better informed than he is about this particular situation - simply
                                  because his rational powers are so usurped by emotion and
                                  intellectual ambition. That has done no good at all, because I have
                                  no political power, beyond the vote. So what has happened has
                                  happened, including the death of David Kelly, the weapons inspector,
                                  including the bombs, the shootings, the beheadings, including the
                                  untold grief on all sides. I retain my original view, though I
                                  clarify it here, make it specific - with regard to analysis of
                                  the 'war in Iraq', the stance of Ken Wilber is Neo-Fascist.
                                  Ah yes, 'impeccable intentions'. Now who would claim such? The man
                                  with the little Red Book, perhaps, the man with the Brownshirt Army,
                                  any man who enters politics and remains in politics intent on
                                  establishing himself as God over men, to introduce a splendid new
                                  order. Or it may happen gradually, insidiously - one is 'overtaken
                                  by events'; one is 'corrupted by power'.
                                  Someone, though, and millions of people, actually, pick up the bill
                                  for all that. It can never be a 'soft' matter for me, and certainly
                                  not a laughing matter.
                                  Of course I too want to inform myself more - one reason for being at
                                  existlist.
                                  Louise

                                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
                                  <nschulth@i...> wrote:
                                  > well he's a little weird, but i would not label him neofascist.
                                  he's sort of elistist, intellectually, but there's a lot of that
                                  going around, even among those with impeccable intentions. to me he
                                  seems a bit more informed than most, and it's my view we're all
                                  incompletely informed.
                                  > actually my opinion of him is not yet formed. i've just
                                  subscribed to integralnaked because the movie clips seemed
                                  interesting.
                                  >
                                  > n
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: louise
                                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:22 AM
                                  > Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Nicole,
                                  > He's another of those well-meaning incompletely-informed (neo-
                                  > Fascist) thinkers I've had my gutful of, I suppose. Researched
                                  him
                                  > before I reached existlist at the end of January.
                                  > This is the site in question:
                                  > http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/misc.iraq.cfm
                                  > And the quotation from within that interview, 14 April 2003:
                                  >
                                  > "Blair, almost single-handedly, is sitting between America and
                                  > Europe and screaming at both of them: you cannot* start
                                  competing
                                  > and fighting with each other - that road leads to more
                                  nightmares
                                  > than you can imagine. Like a pan-Atlantic colossus at Rhodes,
                                  Blair
                                  > has one foot in America and one foot in Europe ... "
                                  >
                                  > I suppose the guy does have a point. If you were sitting in the
                                  > ocean with a foot in each continent, you'd have some reason to
                                  > scream. I've done some screaming in my time, but generally it's
                                  > what makes people want to lock me away. Politics is an odd
                                  > business, and all must be done by due process.
                                  >
                                  > Louise
                                  >
                                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
                                  > <nschulth@i...> wrote:
                                  > > don't think so. am not aware he has any politics, but i will
                                  look.
                                  > >
                                  > > n
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: louise
                                  > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:56 PM
                                  > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Is that the weirdo Ken Wilber who thinks Tony Blair is a
                                  > colossus
                                  > > bestriding the Atlantic??
                                  > > Louise the Britisher
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                  > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  -----------
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                                  >
                                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                  of Service.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Mary Jo
                                  The British do indeed have a long history with Iraq, back to oil partnerships, nationalization of said assets, to the present war. The suffering of their
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Aug 27, 2004
                                    The British do indeed have a long history with Iraq, back to oil
                                    partnerships, nationalization of said assets, to the present war. The
                                    suffering of their people goes on and on. As existentialists it
                                    probably doesn't matter how or what we think about the 'situation'
                                    and lives of all involved: as existentialists how we act and are
                                    actually involved will be determinant. I can only imagine, in
                                    extrapolatory fashion, how Camus or Sartre would have involved
                                    themselves. But that was then, and this is now. Mary

                                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
                                    > Nicole,
                                    > It seems to me that few people if any on this list can really
                                    > understand or sympathise with what I feel about events in Iraq and
                                    > Kuwait, 1990 - 2004. There is most definitely a British
                                    connection,
                                    > both historically, and insofar as British troops and civilians have
                                    > died or been in danger there, and continue to be so.
                                    > At the time I read Ken Wilber's piece (I think it's an interview,
                                    > isn't it?) about the 'Iraq war', I realised at least that I am
                                    > better informed than he is about this particular situation - simply
                                    > because his rational powers are so usurped by emotion and
                                    > intellectual ambition. That has done no good at all, because I
                                    have
                                    > no political power, beyond the vote. So what has happened has
                                    > happened, including the death of David Kelly, the weapons
                                    inspector,
                                    > including the bombs, the shootings, the beheadings, including the
                                    > untold grief on all sides. I retain my original view, though I
                                    > clarify it here, make it specific - with regard to analysis of
                                    > the 'war in Iraq', the stance of Ken Wilber is Neo-Fascist.
                                    > Ah yes, 'impeccable intentions'. Now who would claim such? The
                                    man
                                    > with the little Red Book, perhaps, the man with the Brownshirt
                                    Army,
                                    > any man who enters politics and remains in politics intent on
                                    > establishing himself as God over men, to introduce a splendid new
                                    > order. Or it may happen gradually, insidiously - one is 'overtaken
                                    > by events'; one is 'corrupted by power'.
                                    > Someone, though, and millions of people, actually, pick up the bill
                                    > for all that. It can never be a 'soft' matter for me, and
                                    certainly
                                    > not a laughing matter.
                                    > Of course I too want to inform myself more - one reason for being
                                    at
                                    > existlist.
                                    > Louise
                                    >
                                    > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
                                    > <nschulth@i...> wrote:
                                    > > well he's a little weird, but i would not label him neofascist.
                                    > he's sort of elistist, intellectually, but there's a lot of that
                                    > going around, even among those with impeccable intentions. to me
                                    he
                                    > seems a bit more informed than most, and it's my view we're all
                                    > incompletely informed.
                                    > > actually my opinion of him is not yet formed. i've just
                                    > subscribed to integralnaked because the movie clips seemed
                                    > interesting.
                                    > >
                                    > > n
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: louise
                                    > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:22 AM
                                    > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Nicole,
                                    > > He's another of those well-meaning incompletely-informed (neo-
                                    > > Fascist) thinkers I've had my gutful of, I suppose. Researched
                                    > him
                                    > > before I reached existlist at the end of January.
                                    > > This is the site in question:
                                    > > http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/misc.iraq.cfm
                                    > > And the quotation from within that interview, 14 April 2003:
                                    > >
                                    > > "Blair, almost single-handedly, is sitting between America and
                                    > > Europe and screaming at both of them: you cannot* start
                                    > competing
                                    > > and fighting with each other - that road leads to more
                                    > nightmares
                                    > > than you can imagine. Like a pan-Atlantic colossus at Rhodes,
                                    > Blair
                                    > > has one foot in America and one foot in Europe ... "
                                    > >
                                    > > I suppose the guy does have a point. If you were sitting in
                                    the
                                    > > ocean with a foot in each continent, you'd have some reason to
                                    > > scream. I've done some screaming in my time, but generally
                                    it's
                                    > > what makes people want to lock me away. Politics is an odd
                                    > > business, and all must be done by due process.
                                    > >
                                    > > Louise
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
                                    > > <nschulth@i...> wrote:
                                    > > > don't think so. am not aware he has any politics, but i will
                                    > look.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > n
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: louise
                                    > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:56 PM
                                    > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Is that the weirdo Ken Wilber who thinks Tony Blair is a
                                    > > colossus
                                    > > > bestriding the Atlantic??
                                    > > > Louise the Britisher
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                    > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    -
                                    > -----------
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                                    > >
                                    > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >
                                    > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                    > of Service.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • louise
                                    I wonder if Bookdoc has an opinion. Isn t he the same age as Iraq? Sweet Soffist, sing safely to your Subtle Swans ... ... The ... and ... have ... interview,
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Aug 27, 2004
                                      I wonder if Bookdoc has an opinion. Isn't he the same age as Iraq?

                                      Sweet Soffist, sing safely to your Subtle Swans ...

                                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                                      > The British do indeed have a long history with Iraq, back to oil
                                      > partnerships, nationalization of said assets, to the present war.
                                      The
                                      > suffering of their people goes on and on. As existentialists it
                                      > probably doesn't matter how or what we think about the 'situation'
                                      > and lives of all involved: as existentialists how we act and are
                                      > actually involved will be determinant. I can only imagine, in
                                      > extrapolatory fashion, how Camus or Sartre would have involved
                                      > themselves. But that was then, and this is now. Mary
                                      >
                                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > Nicole,
                                      > > It seems to me that few people if any on this list can really
                                      > > understand or sympathise with what I feel about events in Iraq
                                      and
                                      > > Kuwait, 1990 - 2004. There is most definitely a British
                                      > connection,
                                      > > both historically, and insofar as British troops and civilians
                                      have
                                      > > died or been in danger there, and continue to be so.
                                      > > At the time I read Ken Wilber's piece (I think it's an
                                      interview,
                                      > > isn't it?) about the 'Iraq war', I realised at least that I am
                                      > > better informed than he is about this particular situation -
                                      simply
                                      > > because his rational powers are so usurped by emotion and
                                      > > intellectual ambition. That has done no good at all, because I
                                      > have
                                      > > no political power, beyond the vote. So what has happened has
                                      > > happened, including the death of David Kelly, the weapons
                                      > inspector,
                                      > > including the bombs, the shootings, the beheadings, including
                                      the
                                      > > untold grief on all sides. I retain my original view, though I
                                      > > clarify it here, make it specific - with regard to analysis of
                                      > > the 'war in Iraq', the stance of Ken Wilber is Neo-Fascist.
                                      > > Ah yes, 'impeccable intentions'. Now who would claim such? The
                                      > man
                                      > > with the little Red Book, perhaps, the man with the Brownshirt
                                      > Army,
                                      > > any man who enters politics and remains in politics intent on
                                      > > establishing himself as God over men, to introduce a splendid
                                      new
                                      > > order. Or it may happen gradually, insidiously - one
                                      is 'overtaken
                                      > > by events'; one is 'corrupted by power'.
                                      > > Someone, though, and millions of people, actually, pick up the
                                      bill
                                      > > for all that. It can never be a 'soft' matter for me, and
                                      > certainly
                                      > > not a laughing matter.
                                      > > Of course I too want to inform myself more - one reason for
                                      being
                                      > at
                                      > > existlist.
                                      > > Louise
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
                                      > > <nschulth@i...> wrote:
                                      > > > well he's a little weird, but i would not label him
                                      neofascist.
                                      > > he's sort of elistist, intellectually, but there's a lot of that
                                      > > going around, even among those with impeccable intentions. to
                                      me
                                      > he
                                      > > seems a bit more informed than most, and it's my view we're all
                                      > > incompletely informed.
                                      > > > actually my opinion of him is not yet formed. i've just
                                      > > subscribed to integralnaked because the movie clips seemed
                                      > > interesting.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > n
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: louise
                                      > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:22 AM
                                      > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Nicole,
                                      > > > He's another of those well-meaning incompletely-informed
                                      (neo-
                                      > > > Fascist) thinkers I've had my gutful of, I suppose.
                                      Researched
                                      > > him
                                      > > > before I reached existlist at the end of January.
                                      > > > This is the site in question:
                                      > > > http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/misc.iraq.cfm
                                      > > > And the quotation from within that interview, 14 April 2003:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "Blair, almost single-handedly, is sitting between America
                                      and
                                      > > > Europe and screaming at both of them: you cannot* start
                                      > > competing
                                      > > > and fighting with each other - that road leads to more
                                      > > nightmares
                                      > > > than you can imagine. Like a pan-Atlantic colossus at
                                      Rhodes,
                                      > > Blair
                                      > > > has one foot in America and one foot in Europe ... "
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I suppose the guy does have a point. If you were sitting in
                                      > the
                                      > > > ocean with a foot in each continent, you'd have some reason
                                      to
                                      > > > scream. I've done some screaming in my time, but generally
                                      > it's
                                      > > > what makes people want to lock me away. Politics is an odd
                                      > > > business, and all must be done by due process.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Louise
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Nicole Schultheis"
                                      > > > <nschulth@i...> wrote:
                                      > > > > don't think so. am not aware he has any politics, but i
                                      will
                                      > > look.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > n
                                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > From: louise
                                      > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:56 PM
                                      > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Music, Sartre
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Is that the weirdo Ken Wilber who thinks Tony Blair is a
                                      > > > colossus
                                      > > > > bestriding the Atlantic??
                                      > > > > Louise the Britisher
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                      > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                      > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                                      ---
                                      > -
                                      > > -----------
                                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > >
                                      > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                                      > > >
                                      > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > >
                                      > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                      Terms
                                      > > of Service.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • louise
                                      Andy, I m referring to the rhetoric of British politicians, in regard to domestic policies in the UK, to the scarce believable intricacies of diplomacy in
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 27, 2004
                                        Andy,

                                        I'm referring to the rhetoric of British politicians, in regard to
                                        domestic policies in the UK, to the scarce believable intricacies
                                        of 'diplomacy' in the European Union, and to the so-called 'war on
                                        terror'. Some of our politicians, particularly our Prime Minister,
                                        employ rhetorics which, consciously or not, draw on the language of
                                        existentialism in a crude and corrupting way, enveloping human
                                        beings in the web of deceit that characterises the 'war on Iraq',
                                        for instance [such a web is made purely of language, and ultimately
                                        insubstantial, harmless to the purity of the individual acting in
                                        good will; however, the result of that web in a political context is
                                        physical death and maiming and other evils]. I believe this to be
                                        the same web of deceit into which Jean-Paul Sartre was drawn by his
                                        contact with Simone de Beauvoir and R.D.Laing, as he grappled, with
                                        spectacular evasion and unsuccess, the complexities of Soviet
                                        Communism in relation to European democracies. Camus, the other
                                        continental philosopher I had in mind, has had his love of football,
                                        the least existential thing about him, used to supply metaphoric
                                        fodder with which to distract and bamboozle a citizenship drugged,
                                        at worst, on the casually voyeuristic culture of our TV programmes,
                                        commercials, our newspapers and magazines, and of whatever lends
                                        itself to the spectacular, i.e., the visually or audibly noisy, that
                                        which is the enemy of calm analysis and true contemplation.
                                        Thank God for Dante - he doesn't need to turn in his grave: he can
                                        just with harmless artistic serenity ask his devils to stomp some
                                        fictive incarnation of malice a little deeper into the ice or the
                                        fire or the dirt.
                                        Yes, this is strong stuff, for I am sick to my stomach with the self-
                                        regarding aspect, at times, of contributions to this list, which
                                        makes sustained thought all the more difficult to attempt. My own
                                        flights of fancy are always reactive or just for good times' sake,
                                        but then maybe everyone else who gets 'personal' feels the same way
                                        too.
                                        In brief, 'continental' is my latest 'code-word' for 'suspect Gallic
                                        eloquence', whether it emanate from Anglo-Saxons or whoever, in the
                                        mired world of Western politics, which is my chief concern in the
                                        field of politics.
                                        From such rhetorics, a careful reading of Nietzsche and Kierkegaard,
                                        both pseudonymous works and journals/papers/letters can be more than
                                        an escape. But it's not compulsory. It represents the love in me
                                        of intellectual passion sufficient to burn away the dross of every
                                        wicked thought to which the heart of man is privy.
                                        There is no hope for political peace without true spiritual
                                        reformation, within whatever tradition.
                                        I consider myself a Christian prophet, charged with interpreting my
                                        own prophecies. The human intellect is fallible, but these are my
                                        best thoughts to date, on the serious question you have put to me.

                                        Louise

                                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rix" <ali.hakim@s...> wrote:
                                        > Louise, please explain what do you mean by getting more
                                        continental.
                                        >
                                        > Andy
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: louise [mailto:hecubatoher@y...]
                                        > Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:18 AM
                                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [existlist] Re: Topics
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > That's interesting. Just when I'm finally getting more
                                        continental
                                        > about my philosophising. But we sure could use some more
                                        > participating existentialists, up for debate in honourable
                                        fashion.
                                        > What is a topic here, friends and members?
                                        > However ill-disciplined my aesthetic forays, my aim is always to
                                        > explore the nature of truth. Whatever you think it is, how can we
                                        > discuss life and thought without its concept, however qualified.
                                        I
                                        > still think it is absolute, but only if existential, and hence
                                        > disprovable in words. The language is a living tool to enable us
                                        to
                                        > hear the dead. Heraclitus, for instance, who is a cool presence,
                                        > but very much alive. Maybe I need to find or start a classicist
                                        > group, where the linguistic elements, in relation to contemporary
                                        > existence and thought, might be investigated ...
                                        > We are the living. But unless we think with the rigour best
                                        > exemplified in history, those of us who claim to be thinkers might
                                        > as well be dead. I don't mean that in a forbidding way. And the
                                        > list doesn't show the least signs of impending decline. It's just
                                        > rather quiet, if you know what I mean.
                                        > In fact, it's difficult to say what I mean, because so much has to
                                        > be unspoken. My impression of England's weirdness as a twenty-
                                        first
                                        > century society really is increasing to nauseous levels
                                        sometimes.
                                        > But it's my country, and my great love. Though seems distinctly
                                        > incomplete on its own. And so to overcome my hatred for what
                                        > Continental politics has done to it, in order to look forward
                                        > constructively, is the great existential advance for me, these
                                        last
                                        > six months or so.
                                        > Louise
                                        >
                                        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Susan Schnelbach <susan@t...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > I looks like we're straying a bit off topic here. If we can
                                        return
                                        > to
                                        > > existentialism, I'd appreciate it. Any lurkers who want to start
                                        a
                                        > > conversation, please feel free. We could use some new
                                        material. :)
                                        > >
                                        > > Thank you,
                                        > > Susan
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      • Susan Schnelbach
                                        As noted before, we seem to be straying a little. Does anyone want to begin a philosophical discussion?
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Oct 31, 2004
                                          As noted before, we seem to be straying a little. Does anyone want to
                                          begin a philosophical discussion?
                                        • louise
                                          Presumably we re straying from a conception of academic existentialism, but folks are just so reluctant to contribute. I may be wrong, but I don t believe I m
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Oct 31, 2004
                                            Presumably we're straying from a conception of academic
                                            existentialism, but folks are just so reluctant to contribute. I
                                            may be wrong, but I don't believe I'm the causative factor here, nor
                                            am I suggesting, Susan, that you're accusing me of being such a
                                            factor. All my posts exemplify existential passion, but it gets
                                            very monotonous if you're not interested in being a student of my
                                            life, and, heaven knows, there's no reason anyone should be. My
                                            plan is to keep building up context, to pave the way for more and
                                            more original existential thought. What are the plans of the rest
                                            of you?

                                            Louise

                                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Susan Schnelbach <susan@t...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > As noted before, we seem to be straying a little. Does anyone want
                                            to
                                            > begin a philosophical discussion?
                                          • Carl Heise
                                            Yes, I do. Where do we start? Or is that where we start? Asking the question, how do we decide where we start? Carl ... to
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Oct 31, 2004
                                              Yes,

                                              I do. Where do we start?

                                              Or is that where we start? Asking the question, how do we decide
                                              where we start?

                                              Carl

                                              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Susan Schnelbach <susan@t...>
                                              wrote:
                                              > As noted before, we seem to be straying a little. Does anyone want
                                              to
                                              > begin a philosophical discussion?
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