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YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL

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  • Pravasan Pillay
    dear all i m curious to find out what political stance you guys take. i may be just a lightie (south african speak for kid) but i think that any existentialist
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 26 1:35 AM
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      dear all

      i'm curious to find out what political stance you guys take. i may be just a lightie (south african speak for kid) but i think that any existentialist must necessarily occupy a leftist position. by leftist i don't mean the american democratic party (ha!) 'cos aside from a couple of issues they don't differ much from the republicans. rather by leftist i mean more anarchist influenced. i'm of the opinion that the only political system compatible with existentialism is anarchism. i'll qualify that later but first i'd like to hear what you think.

      b.t.w. have any of you heard of frantz fanon?

      p.s. what is the policy of this mailing group on the posting of articles?

      prava
      "you have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. and many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." - morpheus (the matrix)









      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Martin, David Bryan
      I ll probably get crap for this but (what the heck) *I believe* to claim your in a party at all doesn t conform to existentialism. This is because saying I m a
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 29 4:36 AM
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        I'll probably get crap for this but (what the heck) *I believe* to claim
        your in a party at all doesn't conform to existentialism. This is because
        saying I'm a leftist (for example) is putting a label on yourself and not
        creating your own essence. When Sartre claimed he was a Lenin/Marxist
        (whatever) it was a contradiction to his prior teachings, like in "Nausea"
        when the Self-Taught-Man claimed he was a socialist and Roquentin tried to
        point that out to him.

        Dave
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Pravasan Pillay [mailto:pravasan@...]
        Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:35 AM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL



        dear all

        i'm curious to find out what political stance you guys take. i may be just a
        lightie (south african speak for kid) but i think that any existentialist
        must necessarily occupy a leftist position. by leftist i don't mean the
        american democratic party (ha!) 'cos aside from a couple of issues they
        don't differ much from the republicans. rather by leftist i mean more
        anarchist influenced. i'm of the opinion that the only political system
        compatible with existentialism is anarchism. i'll qualify that later but
        first i'd like to hear what you think.

        b.t.w. have any of you heard of frantz fanon?

        p.s. what is the policy of this mailing group on the posting of articles?

        prava
        "you have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged.
        and many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that
        they will fight to protect it." - morpheus (the matrix)









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • ricardo cardoba
        ... Interesting point about existentialism and anarchism. How s this for an angle? I recently read a book which compares existentialism with Taoism. Basically,
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 29 5:48 AM
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          > Hi Prava (and everyone else)

          Interesting point about existentialism and anarchism.
          How's this for an angle? I recently read a book which
          compares existentialism with Taoism. Basically, the
          author was suggesting that living in Bad Faith is akin
          to being un-enlightened, whereas Authenticity is
          synonymous with living in accordance with the Tao (or
          way). IF this is a tenable position, then anarchism
          would reflect and facilitate the authentic life.

          Obviously there are different forms of anarchism, but
          you'd hope that we're all striving for affirmative
          social relations to make this perplexing reality a
          little more bearable!

          RE. the Morpheus quote, maybe you should also check
          out Herbert Marcuse's 'One Dimensional Man' which
          seems to coincide with what Morpheus is saying.
          Marcuse is a peculiar Marxist (scorned by orthodox
          marxists as being a romantic anarchist). Marcuse
          studied under Heidegger and sought to revivify Marxism
          by placing the individual (and individual liberation)
          at the heart of the project. While he's certainly not
          existentialist, his is nevertheless a persuasive
          analysis of how people are integrated into the
          prevailing ideology, a culture which debases human
          relations, denying the Authentic life.

          Hope at least some of this is persuasive....

          Best wishes

          Ricardo

          --- Pravasan Pillay <pravasan@...> wrote:

          dear all
          >
          > i'm curious to find out what political stance you
          > guys take. i may be just a lightie (south african
          > speak for kid) but i think that any existentialist
          > must necessarily occupy a leftist position. by
          > leftist i don't mean the american democratic party
          > (ha!) 'cos aside from a couple of issues they don't
          > differ much from the republicans. rather by leftist
          > i mean more anarchist influenced. i'm of the opinion
          > that the only political system compatible with
          > existentialism is anarchism. i'll qualify that later
          > but first i'd like to hear what you think.
          >
          > b.t.w. have any of you heard of frantz fanon?
          >
          > p.s. what is the policy of this mailing group on the
          > posting of articles?
          >
          > prava
          > "you have to understand, most of these people are
          > not ready to be unplugged. and many of them are so
          > inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that
          > they will fight to protect it." - morpheus (the
          > matrix)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >


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        • Eduard Alf
          hi Prava, to answer your question, I dont consider Existentialism as being politically oriented. eduard ... From: Pravasan Pillay [mailto:pravasan@hotmail.com]
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 29 7:06 PM
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            hi Prava,

            to answer your question, I dont consider
            Existentialism as being politically oriented.

            eduard

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Pravasan Pillay
            [mailto:pravasan@...]
            Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 4:35 AM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [existlist] YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL



            dear all

            i'm curious to find out what political stance you
            guys take. i may be just a lightie (south african
            speak for kid) but i think that any existentialist
            must necessarily occupy a leftist position. by
            leftist i don't mean the american democratic party
            (ha!) 'cos aside from a couple of issues they
            don't differ much from the republicans. rather by
            leftist i mean more anarchist influenced. i'm of
            the opinion that the only political system
            compatible with existentialism is anarchism. i'll
            qualify that later but first i'd like to hear what
            you think.

            b.t.w. have any of you heard of frantz fanon?

            p.s. what is the policy of this mailing group on
            the posting of articles?

            prava
            "you have to understand, most of these people are
            not ready to be unplugged. and many of them are so
            inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that
            they will fight to protect it." - morpheus (the
            matrix)









            [Non-text portions of this message have been
            removed]


            ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

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          • Pravasan Pillay
            dave, i think that that is a very naive and simplistic way of looking at what being an existentialist implies. it is also very dogmatic to insist that a person
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 30 9:35 AM
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              dave,

              i think that that is a very naive and simplistic way of looking at what being an existentialist implies. it is also very dogmatic to insist that a person who calls himself an existentialist may not assign himself a political orientation. existentialism isn't a doctrine - it's an attitude to life. there is no rulebook. if anything i would classify your political position as stalinist.

              pravasan

              From: Martin, David Bryan
              To: 'existlist@yahoogroups.com'
              Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 1:36 PM
              Subject: RE: [existlist] YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL


              I'll probably get crap for this but (what the heck) *I believe* to claim
              your in a party at all doesn't conform to existentialism. This is because
              saying I'm a leftist (for example) is putting a label on yourself and not
              creating your own essence. When Sartre claimed he was a Lenin/Marxist
              (whatever) it was a contradiction to his prior teachings, like in "Nausea"
              when the Self-Taught-Man claimed he was a socialist and Roquentin tried to
              point that out to him.

              Dave
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Pravasan Pillay [mailto:pravasan@...]
              Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:35 AM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [existlist] YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL



              dear all

              i'm curious to find out what political stance you guys take. i may be just a
              lightie (south african speak for kid) but i think that any existentialist
              must necessarily occupy a leftist position. by leftist i don't mean the
              american democratic party (ha!) 'cos aside from a couple of issues they
              don't differ much from the republicans. rather by leftist i mean more
              anarchist influenced. i'm of the opinion that the only political system
              compatible with existentialism is anarchism. i'll qualify that later but
              first i'd like to hear what you think.

              b.t.w. have any of you heard of frantz fanon?

              p.s. what is the policy of this mailing group on the posting of articles?

              prava
              "you have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged.
              and many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that
              they will fight to protect it." - morpheus (the matrix)









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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              (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Martin, David Bryan
              Pravasan, Just by the way my email offended you implies that you must have some sort of political stance that gives your life meaning. ... From: Pravasan
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 30 9:48 PM
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                Pravasan,

                Just by the way my email offended you implies that you must have some sort
                of political stance that gives your life meaning.


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Pravasan Pillay [mailto:pravasan@...]
                Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:36 PM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [existlist] YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL



                dave,

                i think that that is a very naive and simplistic way of looking at what
                being an existentialist implies. it is also very dogmatic to insist that a
                person who calls himself an existentialist may not assign himself a
                political orientation. existentialism isn't a doctrine - it's an attitude to
                life. there is no rulebook. if anything i would classify your political
                position as stalinist.

                pravasan

                From: Martin, David Bryan
                To: 'existlist@yahoogroups.com'
                Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 1:36 PM
                Subject: RE: [existlist] YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL


                I'll probably get crap for this but (what the heck) *I believe* to claim
                your in a party at all doesn't conform to existentialism. This is because
                saying I'm a leftist (for example) is putting a label on yourself and not
                creating your own essence. When Sartre claimed he was a Lenin/Marxist
                (whatever) it was a contradiction to his prior teachings, like in "Nausea"
                when the Self-Taught-Man claimed he was a socialist and Roquentin tried to
                point that out to him.

                Dave
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Pravasan Pillay [mailto:pravasan@...]
                Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:35 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [existlist] YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL



                dear all

                i'm curious to find out what political stance you guys take. i may be just
                a
                lightie (south african speak for kid) but i think that any existentialist
                must necessarily occupy a leftist position. by leftist i don't mean the
                american democratic party (ha!) 'cos aside from a couple of issues they
                don't differ much from the republicans. rather by leftist i mean more
                anarchist influenced. i'm of the opinion that the only political system
                compatible with existentialism is anarchism. i'll qualify that later but
                first i'd like to hear what you think.

                b.t.w. have any of you heard of frantz fanon?

                p.s. what is the policy of this mailing group on the posting of articles?

                prava
                "you have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be
                unplugged.
                and many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that
                they will fight to protect it." - morpheus (the matrix)









                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
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              • C. S. Wyatt
                I love to hate politics. Just wanted to express that. - C. S.
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 31 1:25 PM
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                  I love to hate politics.

                  Just wanted to express that.

                  - C. S.
                • Pravasan Pillay
                  Dear C.S. It depends on what you mean by politics. What I m expressing is political not in the sense that one partakes in the political process or belongs to a
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 1, 2001
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                    Dear C.S.

                    It depends on what you mean by politics. What I'm expressing is political not in the sense that one partakes in the political process or belongs to a political party. I'm am talking about politics in the more organic sense - politics of the multitude. I recommend that you read "Empire" by Hardt and Negri which is being proclaimed as the new Communist Manifesto by many. For a full copy of the text go to: : http://www.hup.harvard.edu/ - i would venture that the book is the most important work in the last twenty years or so. Ontological freedom and political freedom are intrinsically linked.

                    I don't know about the situation in your country but in South Africa where people are dying from AIDS due to the greed of multinationals and where poor people are being thrown out from their homes and where water is being cut at schools, it is the responsibility of men and women who have made the metaphysical leap to freedom to strive for greater political freedom. All we want is the freedom to dictate our own economies and our own lives. If thats not an existentialist outlook then I don't what is. The responses I've had from this list are more post-modernist than existentist. On another note, I must compliment you on your web-page - it is one of the most comprehensive I've seen. Would you consider adding a section on Frantz Fanon? To find out more about Fanon you can visit our web page at: http://www.udw.ac.za/trial/gov/phil/Philosophy_Department1.html
                    Go to the "Frantz Fanon Lectures" for more info.

                    Peace

                    Prava
                    University of Durban-Westville
                    South Africa
                    "We have been told all our lives that we can't change anything, that you can't fight city hall. At every meeting there is someone who always makes a case why we should not be radical - it will alienate someone, we are not ready, we need to educate a little more, read a little more, get more numbers. Well, you can always make the case not to be radical. But don't. It's a lie. The doubt is false. We are liberators. We are revolutionaries. We are here on earth in this hour of danger and we must move beyond the vision of the Framers to express our own. And that belief is real.

                    Jerry Fresia from "Towards an American Revolution"

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: C. S. Wyatt
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:25 PM
                    Subject: [existlist] Re: YES, IT'S F**KING POLITICAL


                    I love to hate politics.

                    Just wanted to express that.

                    - C. S.


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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Pravasan Pillay
                    Dear C.S. It depends on what you mean by politics. What I m expressing is political not in the sense that one partakes in the political process or belongs to a
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 2, 2001
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                      Dear C.S.

                      It depends on what you mean by politics. What I'm expressing is political not in the sense that one partakes in the political process or belongs to a political party. I'm am talking about politics in the more organic sense - politics of the multitude. I recommend that you read "Empire" by Hardt and Negri which is being proclaimed as the new Communist Manifesto by many. For a full copy of the text go to: : http://www.hup.harvard.edu/ - i would venture that the book is the most important work in the last twenty years or so. Ontological freedom and political freedom are intrinsically linked.

                      I don't know about the situation in your country but in South Africa where people are dying from AIDS due to the greed of multinationals and where poor people are being thrown out from their homes and where water is being cut at schools, it is the responsibility of men and women who have made the metaphysical leap to freedom to strive for greater political freedom. All we want is the freedom to dictate our own economies and our own lives. If thats not an existentialist outlook then I don't what is. The responses I've had from this list are more post-modernist than existentist. On another note, I must compliment you on your web-page - it is one of the most comprehensive I've seen. Would you consider adding a section on Frantz Fanon? To find out more about Fanon you can visit our web page at: http://www.udw.ac.za/trial/gov/phil/Philosophy_Department1.html
                      Go to the "Frantz Fanon Lectures" for more info.

                      Peace

                      Prava
                      University of Durban-Westville
                      South Africa
                      "We have been told all our lives that we can't change anything, that you can't fight city hall. At every meeting there is someone who always makes a case why we should not be radical - it will alienate someone, we are not ready, we need to educate a little more, read a little more, get more numbers. Well, you can always make the case not to be radical. But don't. It's a lie. The doubt is false. We are liberators. We are revolutionaries. We are here on earth in this hour of danger and we must move beyond the vision of the Framers to express our own. And that belief is real.

                      Jerry Fresia from "Towards an American Revolution"





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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