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Race

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  • Mary Jo
    Louise, Your recent posts about race-racial-racism are interesting to me. Someone recently remarked to me that behind most terror and torture lurks racism.
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 2, 2004
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      Louise, Your recent posts about race-racial-racism are interesting to
      me. Someone recently remarked to me that behind most terror and
      torture lurks racism. Surely this topic falls under the ex.-aegis.
      The major contemporary racial-philosophical-politic we need to
      contend with these days is radical islam. Dealing with cultural
      bullyism in our neighborhoods and city-states is painful enough, but
      most nations are in the same canoe when it comes to more catastrophic
      casualties. France has a horrible history of dealing with the
      Algerians, and as they were friendly but unhappily married for so
      many years, many moslems immigrated to France. Camus himself was
      personally involved in the issue. Now something like 10% constitute
      their population. Add to the fact that they want a piece of the
      future economy of Babylon the Great, without having had to pay in
      blood, they've got a real mess on their hands. I imagine some day
      they'll jump into our canoe, but they'll have to get their hands
      dirty first. I still haven't decided yet if banning the burka or
      carrying rosaries is the true path to secularism. I'm just pissed
      off that I have to listen to the presbyterian church's electronic
      chimes from across the street at 9, 12, 3 & 6 o' clock every day! The
      offensive memes are hard to shut out of my head. Usually I just have
      my kids play some loud obnoxious hip-hop. America's political roots
      are both Scottish and French. C'est la vie. Who is the colonial now?
      Mary
    • louise
      Mary, It is a very interesting and important topic to me: the relationships among what are, conceived abstractly, different areas of scholarly discourse, i.e.,
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 2, 2004
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        Mary, It is a very interesting and important topic to me: the
        relationships among what are, conceived abstractly, different areas
        of scholarly discourse, i.e., human biology/genetics;
        politics/economics; philosophy/culture, the latter being an
        especially vague term, but, for me, exemplified especially by
        poetry, ancient and modern, which purifies the language of the tribe
        (was that Mallarme's phrase, if translated back into French?).
        There most certainly are no quick and easy answers. My political
        endeavours in relation to existential postings at existlist have
        been simply repeated attempts to open up the can of worms, to make
        it quite clear that there is a problem - viz, prejudice and speech-
        suppression posing as morality, whether religious or secular. Then
        I've been transcribing snippets that are of intrinsic interest, but
        are not actually representative of the best scholarship in the
        field. I haven't read 'The Bell Curve', for instance, and don't
        particularly want to, because my instincts tell me that politics are
        leading the way, and science trotting along behind, in such works.
        I could be wrong; and I'm not saying it would be bad science, just
        inefficacious, because the first task is to persuade, at the
        cultural and human level, that there is something intrinsically
        beautiful and justified and necessary about studying race, as with
        any other subject of study.
        I am no expert, but I doubt whether radical Islam needs to concern
        itself with racial questions, because the Muslims have a doctrine of
        brotherhoood and sisterhood that cuts across racial divides very
        well, wherever it works. When Islam degenerates into brutality at
        the level of the individual, the family, the State, or the cell of
        activists, then that is a political and religious challenge, to say
        the least, to Muslims and their leaders. And for the West, it is a
        political, legal, and military headache, again to say the least. My
        own emphasis is not political but philosophical/religious. I
        practise what I understand of Christianity, which is in such a
        degenerate intellectual and moral condition at present, that my
        practise of it must seem to some as though it's 'hooligan
        Christianity', but those who observe what happens will see that I am
        not violent, I simply wield words with uninhibited ethical passion.
        The sanctimonious inveighings against courteous expressions of
        opinion on the subject of race - well, it literally stops my typing
        fingers in their tracks. It's not anger I feel - it's disgust.
        How oh how have we in the West got ourselves into this nauseating
        condition of timidity soaked in guilt, about what is physically
        beautiful, intellectually interesting, and politically crucial: the
        whole amazing reality of racial difference. It's all right for the
        kiddies to chuckle over people having their noses measured, when the
        science was all mired in vicious political struggle they cannot
        understand. But in my part of the world, at any rate, I find it
        very hard to tolerate if a human being has reached the age of four,
        and is still behaving like an idiot. It's not my business - I hold
        the parents responsible, but the government and the electorate
        complacent with such government, are also responsible for this gross
        tyrannical immaturity.
        Let's get practical. This isn't going to be easy. The first step
        is to weigh the arguments on how the broad mass of the people are to
        be persuaded that bookshops, stationers, and libraries, should be
        able to stock scholarship and magazines and newspapers on merit and
        on customer demand, and not on a basis skewed by covert political
        pressure and commercial greed. It totally sickens me, to see all
        the bodily vulgarity on view, in the absence of freedom of speech
        about the pursuits of the mind. Now that's what I call
        discrimination, and it's the bee I've been carrying in my bonnet for
        at least twenty-three years now. Louise

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
        > Louise, Your recent posts about race-racial-racism are interesting
        to
        > me. Someone recently remarked to me that behind most terror and
        > torture lurks racism. Surely this topic falls under the ex.-aegis.
        > The major contemporary racial-philosophical-politic we need to
        > contend with these days is radical islam. Dealing with cultural
        > bullyism in our neighborhoods and city-states is painful enough,
        but
        > most nations are in the same canoe when it comes to more
        catastrophic
        > casualties. France has a horrible history of dealing with the
        > Algerians, and as they were friendly but unhappily married for so
        > many years, many moslems immigrated to France. Camus himself was
        > personally involved in the issue. Now something like 10%
        constitute
        > their population. Add to the fact that they want a piece of the
        > future economy of Babylon the Great, without having had to pay in
        > blood, they've got a real mess on their hands. I imagine some day
        > they'll jump into our canoe, but they'll have to get their hands
        > dirty first. I still haven't decided yet if banning the burka or
        > carrying rosaries is the true path to secularism. I'm just pissed
        > off that I have to listen to the presbyterian church's electronic
        > chimes from across the street at 9, 12, 3 & 6 o' clock every day!
        The
        > offensive memes are hard to shut out of my head. Usually I just
        have
        > my kids play some loud obnoxious hip-hop. America's political
        roots
        > are both Scottish and French. C'est la vie. Who is the colonial
        now?
        > Mary
      • bhvwd
        Louise, Your post was most provocative and hardly politically correct.Nowadays painting in such broad strokes is immediately taken for racial conjecture. I
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 2, 2004
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          Louise, Your post was most provocative and hardly politically
          correct.Nowadays painting in such broad strokes is immediately taken
          for racial conjecture. I think there is much to be learned from that
          kind of analysis. Identification of areas where racial groups act in
          similar fashon can lead to beneficial demographic knowledge. To be
          correct it must be masked as market study with psudonems covering
          the racial character of the players. Certainly the think tanks
          engage in such research but their agenda remains closed to public
          scrutany.
          In a similar vein we are being asked if Bush is using the terrorist
          situation for political benefit. I find it most difficult to form
          an opinion when the intelligence is unavailable to me as an
          individual citisen. If I do not know what the intelligence is how am
          I to weight it? As an existentialist my footing becomes less and
          less sound because I must trust and/ or guess. My concept of
          representative democracy becomes much more literal as democracy is
          only represented by the system. With analitical thinking banned as
          politically incorrect and first line knowledge of precipitous events
          classified beyond my clearance, I become sightless as I vote a party
          line. I understand that is exactly how many special interests wish
          me to be cornered. Bill
        • louise
          Ah, yes: political correctness . You see, that chilling phrase probably inhibits somewhat different kinds of discourse in different countries or States,
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 2, 2004
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            Ah, yes: 'political correctness'. You see, that chilling phrase
            probably inhibits somewhat different kinds of discourse in different
            countries or States, according to the legal system, etc. We are
            probably somewhat freer than the French in these kinds of areas, and
            if anyone gets prosecuted for saying unpopular things, there's at
            least habeas corpus, so far. But there is, I suspect, a limit to
            how far we can get with direct discussion on existlist. You're
            right, we have to find ways of saying. In politics, my own
            experience and Paul's unflagging pessimism about contemporary
            democracy, have combined to rein in some of my sanguine Sagittarian
            optimism, but dash it, I think there are some hopeful signs, in the
            UK, that crime, unvetted immigration, educational failure and
            overloads on the medical system (all evils in themselves) are slowly
            producing the conditions for an intelligent revolt. Yes, it will
            surely happen differently in our respective countries. I think,
            actually, you probably have more apartheid in USA, than here, and an
            astonishing number of young black men going into your jails or being
            shot. I know that's a generalisation, but it looks so stark and
            obvious it might as well stand as an example. Anything that is
            going to make your minority populations even angrier is not
            intelligent; I don't think anything can be effectively done by sheer
            force any more, even if it were desirable.
            Goodness, look at the time. Channel Four News. See you later.
            Louise

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <valleywestdental@q...>
            wrote:
            > Louise, Your post was most provocative and hardly politically
            > correct.Nowadays painting in such broad strokes is immediately
            taken
            > for racial conjecture. I think there is much to be learned from
            that
            > kind of analysis. Identification of areas where racial groups act
            in
            > similar fashon can lead to beneficial demographic knowledge. To
            be
            > correct it must be masked as market study with psudonems covering
            > the racial character of the players. Certainly the think tanks
            > engage in such research but their agenda remains closed to public
            > scrutany.
            > In a similar vein we are being asked if Bush is using the
            terrorist
            > situation for political benefit. I find it most difficult to form
            > an opinion when the intelligence is unavailable to me as an
            > individual citisen. If I do not know what the intelligence is how
            am
            > I to weight it? As an existentialist my footing becomes less and
            > less sound because I must trust and/ or guess. My concept of
            > representative democracy becomes much more literal as democracy is
            > only represented by the system. With analitical thinking banned as
            > politically incorrect and first line knowledge of precipitous
            events
            > classified beyond my clearance, I become sightless as I vote a
            party
            > line. I understand that is exactly how many special interests
            wish
            > me to be cornered. Bill
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