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  • louise
    Barry, I can t tell you how pleased I am to read your post - goodness, it brings back memories. I resigned from my job in 1985 - I gave a month s notice, but
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1, 2004
      Barry,
      I can't tell you how pleased I am to read your post - goodness, it
      brings back memories. I resigned from my job in 1985 - I gave a
      month's notice, but they asked me to work an extra few days, until
      September 6th, which was also the date I started the job, in 1983.
      Sorry, I digress. If you persist here, I think you'll eventually
      perceive a pattern through apparent chaos; true philosophy is
      existential, and your resignation sounds like a living example of
      that, likewise your decision to travel. What is existential
      involves the whole of your humanity, and accordingly strong
      passions, including, frankly, fury, are aroused. If you read
      biographies of philosophers, you'll soon encounter that.
      May I strongly recommend to you The Tragic Philosopher: Friedrich
      Nietzsche, by F. A. Lea, published by Methuen, my edition being the
      second, 1977. In the Preface the author notes:
      "Had the years during which fifty publishers were rejecting my
      manuscript allowed me to keep up with scholarship, I would certainly
      have profited both by (Prof. Walter Kaufmann's) own work and by
      Richard Blunck's Nietzsche: Kindheit und Jugend (Munchen, 1953) to
      correct mistakes in the earlier chapters."
      I quote this to illustrate the rewards of persistence, a virtue
      you're likely to need in this hard world!
      Now I shall quote a little from the book itself, though there's no
      substitute for reading original philosophy, as a starting-point, and
      I would recommend possibly, in Nietzsche's case, The Joyful Wisdom.
      From F.A. Lea's book, here is an excerpt concerning Nietzsche's
      disillusionment with his great friend and mentor:
      " '... Wagner brings together all possible effective elements at a
      time when popular taste is dulled and demands extremely crass and
      vigorous methods. Everything is employed - the magnificent, the
      intoxicating, the bewildering, the grandiose, the frightful, the
      clamorous, the ecstatic, the neurotic.... Himself possessing the
      instincts of an actor, he wishes to imitate mankind only in the most
      effective and realistic manner. His extreme nature sees only
      weakness and insincerity in any other methods. Painting for effect
      is an extremely dangerous thing for artists....He makes a determined
      attempt to assert himself, and to dominate in an age antagonistic to
      all art. Poison is an antidote to poison. Every sort of
      exaggeration is polemically arrayed against the forces hostile to
      art. Religion and philosophical elements are introduced,
      aspirations for the idyllic - in short, everything, everything.'
      Whether a just verdict or not, one pretty devastating to the author
      of The Birth of Tragedy! For the second time within twelve months,
      the soldier of culture had been made to turn the sword against
      himself."

      I haven't read this book for years, but I know it's a great, great
      book, whatever the author would modestly have you believe (he calls
      himself a third-rate thinker in the Preface, 1972).
      I promise you that the comments about bears and sacrifice aren't
      throwaway, especially, for me, who have on my desk here a postcard
      produced by the charity WSPA, showing a young bear, who has been
      rescued from appalling cruelty and starting to look happy in his new
      home. He's an Asiatic Black Bear cub called Maylo, and has on his
      face the nearest I've ever seen to a smile, in the case of this
      species. Now I'm looking at his picture, and I can't help smiling,
      myself. I also made friends with a golden labrador puppy this
      morning, as he/she sat behind a high wrought iron gate. Animals
      can't philosophise, linguistically, but they can help human beings
      to do so. Or, then again, maybe they just have a different
      language, much more basic, but somehow allied to our own
      intelligences.
      Louise

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Baztuk@a... wrote:
      > Hello all,
      > This is my first post.
      > Having read through the ones I have received since yesterday, I
      must say that
      > the discussion is somewhat different to what I expected. I am 22
      and from
      > Britain, I am just becoming interested in philosophy and
      existentialism is very
      > interesting and fits in with a lot of the beliefs that I held and
      conclusions
      > that I had come to, without knowing that there was a whole
      philosophy based
      > round it. That we are all responsible fo our own actions and that
      we must use our
      > lives to do SOMETHING.
      > Having spent the 2 and a half years since I left school in a
      meaningless 9 to
      > 5 job, knowing more or less what I was going to be doing for the
      rest of the
      > day as soon as I opened my eyes in the morning, I handed my
      resignation in 1
      > month ago and finished work yesterday. In 2 weeks I am going
      travelling to try
      > to discover what life is and what is possible to do with it.
      > I was hoping for enlightenment or at least some like minded beings
      to discuss
      > the greater matters of life and the world, I am dissapointed to
      see you
      > arguing about who said what, and making throw away comments about
      bears and human
      > sacrifice, if I wanted that I could go into any chat room on the
      internet.
      > What is freedom?
      > How do you acheive it?
      > Why did the sperm and the egg that joined together to create me do
      that?
      > Am I destined to do something more than those I see around me who
      become so
      > bothered about the completely irrelevant, or am I simply trying to
      read too
      > much into everything?
      >
      > Your comments would be much appreciated.
      >
      > Barry
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Susan Schnelbach
      Barry - Welcome to the group. We try to keep things on topic, but some days keeping this group on topic is like herding cats. It just doesn t work. You have to
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 1, 2004
        Barry -

        Welcome to the group. We try to keep things on topic, but some days
        keeping this group on topic is like herding cats. It just doesn't work.
        You have to be patient and wait for them to return to existentialism.

        And they do eventually return to the topic on hand. Please feel free to
        start conversations and post questions. You never know when something
        you ask starts up something interesting.

        On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 05:05 AM, Baztuk@... wrote:

        > Hello all,
        > This is my first post.
        > Having read through the ones I have received since yesterday, I must
        > say that
        > the discussion is somewhat different to what I expected. I am 22 and
        > from
        > Britain, I am just becoming interested in philosophy and
        > existentialism is very
        > interesting and fits in with a lot of the beliefs that I held and
        > conclusions
        > that I had come to, without knowing that there was a whole philosophy
        > based
        > round it. That we are all responsible fo our own actions and that we
        > must use our
        > lives to do SOMETHING.
        > Having spent the 2 and a half years since I left school in a
        > meaningless 9 to
        > 5 job, knowing more or less what I was going to be doing for the rest
        > of the
        > day as soon as I opened my eyes in the morning, I handed my
        > resignation in 1
        > month ago and finished work yesterday. In 2 weeks I am going
        > travelling to try
        > to discover what life is and what is possible to do with it.
        > I was hoping for enlightenment or at least some like minded beings to
        > discuss
        > the greater matters of life and the world, I am dissapointed to see you
        > arguing about who said what, and making throw away comments about
        > bears and human
        > sacrifice, if I wanted that I could go into any chat room on the
        > internet.
        > What is freedom?
        > How do you acheive it?
        > Why did the sperm and the egg that joined together to create me do
        > that?
        > Am I destined to do something more than those I see around me who
        > become so
        > bothered about the completely irrelevant, or am I simply trying to
        > read too
        > much into everything?
        >
        > Your comments would be much appreciated.
        >
        > Barry
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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      • Baztuk@aol.com
        Had I joined on a different day, or waited 48 hours instead of 24, I think my first post would have been quite different, having read some of the posts since
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 2, 2004
          Had I joined on a different day, or waited 48 hours instead of 24, I think my
          first post would have been quite different, having read some of the posts
          since then, I only had 7 or 8 pieces of the jigsaw puzzle!
          I will not apologise though, its not the first time I've reacted to a
          situation without knowing everything about it and I'm sure it won't be my last.
          I'll give you a litle poem to atone for my rash writing.

          The Tree,
          The Tree,
          I sing to thee,
          If you were to fall on me,
          I'd die.
          Barry 1999

          P.S I have done some cat-herding in my time, and a little tip for those
          wishing to give it a go, tuna in the socks, works every time.

          In a message dated 02/04/2004 05:24:43 GMT Standard Time, susan@...
          writes:

          > Barry -
          >
          > Welcome to the group. We try to keep things on topic, but some days
          > keeping this group on topic is like herding cats. It just doesn't work.
          > You have to be patient and wait for them to return to existentialism.
          >
          > And they do eventually return to the topic on hand. Please feel free to
          > start conversations and post questions. You never know when something
          > you ask starts up something interesting.
          >
          > On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 05:05 AM, Baztuk@... wrote:
          >
          > >Hello all,
          > >This is my first post.
          > >Having read through the ones I have received since yesterday, I must
          > >say that
          > >the discussion is somewhat different to what I expected. I am 22 and
          > >from
          > >Britain, I am just becoming interested in philosophy and
          > >existentialism is very
          > >interesting and fits in with a lot of the beliefs that I held and
          > >conclusions
          > >that I had come to, without knowing that there was a whole philosophy
          > >based
          > >round it. That we are all responsible fo our own actions and that we
          > >must use our
          > >lives to do SOMETHING.
          > >Having spent the 2 and a half years since I left school in a
          > >meaningless 9 to
          > >5 job, knowing more or less what I was going to be doing for the rest
          > >of the
          > >day as soon as I opened my eyes in the morning, I handed my
          > >resignation in 1
          > >month ago and finished work yesterday. In 2 weeks I am going
          > >travelling to try
          > >to discover what life is and what is possible to do with it.
          > >I was hoping for enlightenment or at least some like minded beings to
          > >discuss
          > >the greater matters of life and the world, I am dissapointed to see you
          > >arguing about who said what, and making throw away comments about
          > >bears and human
          > >sacrifice, if I wanted that I could go into any chat room on the
          > >internet.
          > >What is freedom?
          > >How do you acheive it?
          > >Why did the sperm and the egg that joined together to create me do
          > >that?
          > >Am I destined to do something more than those I see around me who
          > >become so
          > >bothered about the completely irrelevant, or am I simply trying to
          > >read too
          > >much into everything?
          > >
          > >Your comments would be much appreciated.
          > >
          > >Barry



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • louise
          Barry, I think you joined at the perfect time, though I ve absolutely no idea how many pieces of the jigsaw I myself am holding. Here s a piece of writing I
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 2, 2004
            Barry,
            I think you joined at the perfect time, though I've absolutely no
            idea how many pieces of the jigsaw I myself am holding. Here's a
            piece of writing I did on 12th December, 1991.

            Instinct comes first, and then reflection. The caged bird - a
            dunnock, in fact, unable to fly - was hopping from perch to perch.
            My ears, grown accustomed to the small sound of bird-feet gently
            striking wood, omitted (as it were) to tell my conscious mind of his
            presence, just at a vital time ... and I opened the door of the
            room, admitted the cat, and turned my unsuspecting back on them both.

            What was it, made me turn again, abruptly? I can't recall -
            probably the sense of sound, seeking to redeem its former error. At
            any rate, the placid furred animal of a moment since had mounted to
            the chair, body tense, ears flat, her single eye intently focussed
            on the bird. She leapt, and so did I; and the hand that hoped to
            pull her away omitted (as it were) to see the tablecloth. There it
            was, a chequered cotton, yellow and white, folded in half, placed on
            the desk beneath the cage. As I seized the cat, she dug her claws -
            instinct again - into the cloth: cage, cat and hand slid in unison
            across the desk. A feline skull went thud against the doors of the
            cabinet gramophone, standing adjacent. Down she droppped to the
            carpet, placid again, and strolled across the floor to a dish of
            food. The dunnock seemed content as well, though his man-made haven
            teetered on the edge of the desk. Ignorance is bliss, but I, being
            human, pushed the cage from the precipice, and carried it out of the
            room.

            Several weeks have passed; I lean back in the old armchair, its
            stuffing partly exposed by the claws of Morwyn; and ponder the
            instinct of reflection.


            (The name, 'Morwyn', is borrowed from a novel by J.C. Powys)

            Louise


            -- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Baztuk@a... wrote:
            > Had I joined on a different day, or waited 48 hours instead of 24,
            I think my
            > first post would have been quite different, having read some of
            the posts
            > since then, I only had 7 or 8 pieces of the jigsaw puzzle!
            > I will not apologise though, its not the first time I've reacted
            to a
            > situation without knowing everything about it and I'm sure it
            won't be my last.
            > I'll give you a litle poem to atone for my rash writing.
            >
            > The Tree,
            > The Tree,
            > I sing to thee,
            > If you were to fall on me,
            > I'd die.
            > Barry 1999
            >
            > P.S I have done some cat-herding in my time, and a little tip for
            those
            > wishing to give it a go, tuna in the socks, works every time.
            >
            > In a message dated 02/04/2004 05:24:43 GMT Standard Time,
            susan@t...
            > writes:
            >
            > > Barry -
            > >
            > > Welcome to the group. We try to keep things on topic, but some
            days
            > > keeping this group on topic is like herding cats. It just
            doesn't work.
            > > You have to be patient and wait for them to return to
            existentialism.
            > >
            > > And they do eventually return to the topic on hand. Please feel
            free to
            > > start conversations and post questions. You never know when
            something
            > > you ask starts up something interesting.
            > >
            > > On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 05:05 AM, Baztuk@a... wrote:
            > >
            > > >Hello all,
            > > >This is my first post.
            > > >Having read through the ones I have received since yesterday, I
            must
            > > >say that
            > > >the discussion is somewhat different to what I expected. I am
            22 and
            > > >from
            > > >Britain, I am just becoming interested in philosophy and
            > > >existentialism is very
            > > >interesting and fits in with a lot of the beliefs that I held
            and
            > > >conclusions
            > > >that I had come to, without knowing that there was a whole
            philosophy
            > > >based
            > > >round it. That we are all responsible fo our own actions and
            that we
            > > >must use our
            > > >lives to do SOMETHING.
            > > >Having spent the 2 and a half years since I left school in a
            > > >meaningless 9 to
            > > >5 job, knowing more or less what I was going to be doing for
            the rest
            > > >of the
            > > >day as soon as I opened my eyes in the morning, I handed my
            > > >resignation in 1
            > > >month ago and finished work yesterday. In 2 weeks I am going
            > > >travelling to try
            > > >to discover what life is and what is possible to do with it.
            > > >I was hoping for enlightenment or at least some like minded
            beings to
            > > >discuss
            > > >the greater matters of life and the world, I am dissapointed to
            see you
            > > >arguing about who said what, and making throw away comments
            about
            > > >bears and human
            > > >sacrifice, if I wanted that I could go into any chat room on
            the
            > > >internet.
            > > >What is freedom?
            > > >How do you acheive it?
            > > >Why did the sperm and the egg that joined together to create me
            do
            > > >that?
            > > >Am I destined to do something more than those I see around me
            who
            > > >become so
            > > >bothered about the completely irrelevant, or am I simply trying
            to
            > > >read too
            > > >much into everything?
            > > >
            > > >Your comments would be much appreciated.
            > > >
            > > >Barry
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Baztuk@aol.com
            Louise, Life is a million piece jigsaw puzzle, maybe more than that, it is only through the sharing of each piece that anyone can hope to come close to seeing
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 2, 2004
              Louise,

              Life is a million piece jigsaw puzzle, maybe more than that, it is only
              through the sharing of each piece that anyone can hope to come close to seeing the
              picture in its entirity, some are quite happy to gaze at their own, never
              quite sure of how thy (a typo which I will leave) fit into anything, or, if indeed
              there is anything for them to fit into.
              Maybe the point of all this is to gather them all together and make a
              complete picture, I hope for someone's sake that the most important piece isn't being
              "protected" by a hermit under lock and key and over the heads of everyone
              else.

              Barry

              In a message dated 02/04/2004 10:40:24 GMT Standard Time,
              hecubatoher@... writes:

              > Barry,
              > I think you joined at the perfect time, though I've absolutely no
              > idea how many pieces of the jigsaw I myself am holding. Here's a
              > piece of writing I did on 12th December, 1991.
              >
              > Instinct comes first, and then reflection. The caged bird - a
              > dunnock, in fact, unable to fly - was hopping from perch to perch.
              > My ears, grown accustomed to the small sound of bird-feet gently
              > striking wood, omitted (as it were) to tell my conscious mind of his
              > presence, just at a vital time ... and I opened the door of the
              > room, admitted the cat, and turned my unsuspecting back on them both.
              >
              > What was it, made me turn again, abruptly? I can't recall -
              > probably the sense of sound, seeking to redeem its former error. At
              > any rate, the placid furred animal of a moment since had mounted to
              > the chair, body tense, ears flat, her single eye intently focussed
              > on the bird. She leapt, and so did I; and the hand that hoped to
              > pull her away omitted (as it were) to see the tablecloth. There it
              > was, a chequered cotton, yellow and white, folded in half, placed on
              > the desk beneath the cage. As I seized the cat, she dug her claws -
              > instinct again - into the cloth: cage, cat and hand slid in unison
              > across the desk. A feline skull went thud against the doors of the
              > cabinet gramophone, standing adjacent. Down she droppped to the
              > carpet, placid again, and strolled across the floor to a dish of
              > food. The dunnock seemed content as well, though his man-made haven
              > teetered on the edge of the desk. Ignorance is bliss, but I, being
              > human, pushed the cage from the precipice, and carried it out of the
              > room.
              >
              > Several weeks have passed; I lean back in the old armchair, its
              > stuffing partly exposed by the claws of Morwyn; and ponder the
              > instinct of reflection.
              >
              >
              > (The name, 'Morwyn', is borrowed from a novel by J.C. Powys)
              >
              > Louise
              >
              >
              > -- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Baztuk@a... wrote:
              > >Had I joined on a different day, or waited 48 hours instead of 24,
              > I think my
              > >first post would have been quite different, having read some of
              > the posts
              > >since then, I only had 7 or 8 pieces of the jigsaw puzzle!
              > >I will not apologise though, its not the first time I've reacted
              > to a
              > >situation without knowing everything about it and I'm sure it
              > won't be my last.
              > >I'll give you a litle poem to atone for my rash writing.
              > >
              > >The Tree,
              > >The Tree,
              > >I sing to thee,
              > >If you were to fall on me,
              > >I'd die.
              > >Barry 1999
              > >
              > >P.S I have done some cat-herding in my time, and a little tip for
              > those
              > >wishing to give it a go, tuna in the socks, works every time.
              > >
              > >In a message dated 02/04/2004 05:24:43 GMT Standard Time,
              > susan@t...
              > >writes:
              > >
              > >>Barry -
              > >>
              > >>Welcome to the group. We try to keep things on topic, but some
              > days
              > >>keeping this group on topic is like herding cats. It just
              > doesn't work.
              > >>You have to be patient and wait for them to return to
              > existentialism.
              > >>
              > >>And they do eventually return to the topic on hand. Please feel
              > free to
              > >>start conversations and post questions. You never know when
              > something
              > >>you ask starts up something interesting.
              > >>
              > >>On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 05:05 AM, Baztuk@a... wrote:
              > >>
              > >>>Hello all,
              > >>>This is my first post.
              > >>>Having read through the ones I have received since yesterday, I
              > must
              > >>>say that
              > >>>the discussion is somewhat different to what I expected. I am
              > 22 and
              > >>>from
              > >>>Britain, I am just becoming interested in philosophy and
              > >>>existentialism is very
              > >>>interesting and fits in with a lot of the beliefs that I held
              > and
              > >>>conclusions
              > >>>that I had come to, without knowing that there was a whole
              > philosophy
              > >>>based
              > >>>round it. That we are all responsible fo our own actions and
              > that we
              > >>>must use our
              > >>>lives to do SOMETHING.
              > >>>Having spent the 2 and a half years since I left school in a
              > >>>meaningless 9 to
              > >>>5 job, knowing more or less what I was going to be doing for
              > the rest
              > >>>of the
              > >>>day as soon as I opened my eyes in the morning, I handed my
              > >>>resignation in 1
              > >>>month ago and finished work yesterday. In 2 weeks I am going
              > >>>travelling to try
              > >>>to discover what life is and what is possible to do with it.
              > >>>I was hoping for enlightenment or at least some like minded
              > beings to
              > >>>discuss
              > >>>the greater matters of life and the world, I am dissapointed to
              > see you
              > >>>arguing about who said what, and making throw away comments
              > about
              > >>>bears and human
              > >>>sacrifice, if I wanted that I could go into any chat room on
              > the
              > >>>internet.
              > >>>What is freedom?
              > >>>How do you acheive it?
              > >>>Why did the sperm and the egg that joined together to create me
              > do
              > >>>that?
              > >>>Am I destined to do something more than those I see around me
              > who
              > >>>become so
              > >>>bothered about the completely irrelevant, or am I simply trying
              > to
              > >>>read too
              > >>>much into everything?
              > >>>
              > >>>Your comments would be much appreciated.
              > >>>
              > >>>Barry
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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