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Freedoms

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  • C. S. Wyatt
    I have a general question: How free is your specific home province/state/nation? What can you do and what can t you do? How free do you feel? Do you consider
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 1, 2004
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      I have a general question:

      How "free" is your specific home province/state/nation?

      What can you do and what can't you do?

      How free do you feel? Do you consider yourself able to exercise free
      will within reasonable constraints?

      Existentialism has struggled with such issues, witness Sartre v.
      Merleau-Ponty and others. How "free" can we be within a social structure?

      How do you define freedom? Freedom from or freedom to? I would rather
      be "free to" than "free from" -- but that includes a lot of risks some
      people would not want to accept.

      I know free will includes the ability to do whatever I want, as long
      as I accept the results. Then again, most of us don't want to risk
      punishment for silly things.

      - C. S. Wyatt
    • jerryjfortin@aol.com
      In a message dated 01/03/2004 1:12:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, ... Yikes, thats like five questions!..... Okay, I feel very free in Canada. Yes I am able to
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 1, 2004
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        In a message dated 01/03/2004 1:12:40 PM Mountain Standard Time,
        existlist1@... writes:

        > I have a general question:
        >
        > How "free" is your specific home province/state/nation?
        >
        > What can you do and what can't you do?
        >
        > How free do you feel? Do you consider yourself able to exercise free
        > will within reasonable constraints?
        >
        > Existentialism has struggled with such issues, witness Sartre v.
        > Merleau-Ponty and others. How "free" can we be within a social structure?
        >
        > How do you define freedom? Freedom from or freedom to?

        Yikes, thats like five questions!.....

        Okay, I feel very free in Canada. Yes I am able to exercise free within
        reasonable constraints. In Canada we are free to do most things short of causing
        harm or promoting hatred. My definition of freedom is the ability to choose,
        free will. I seek protection from other members of my society and the freedom
        to participate in societies decision making process.

        Jerry


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • eduard at home
        Chris, That is a long general question ... Free amounts to free within the constraints of whatever laws may be imposed. Quebec has a lot of laws that
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 1, 2004
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          Chris,

          That is a long general question ...

          "Free" amounts to "free" within the constraints of whatever laws may be imposed. Quebec has a lot of laws that limit what I can do. But then for most of them, I could do a trace to something that I would approve of. For example, it is against the law to change the natural setting of a river bank with something like 50ft of the nominal water's edge. You cant run a lawn down to the beach, nor can you bring in sand to make a different beach that would be there naturally.

          But then it is also possible for the government to hold a referendum to separate the province of Quebec from Canada ... in which case I would have to join others in fighting [on a legal basis] to separate this area from Quebec. But then the past referendums have been lost by the separatist faction and it is now unlikely that there will be another.

          So sometimes I don't have freedom in the face of special interest referendums.

          On the national level, the federal government is reluctant to hold referendums. The government considers that it is composed our "representatives" and as such they make decisions for us. For example, the bringing in of the hated GST and the metric system. Albeit, I am in agreement with the latter.

          But then I suppose all that is part of living in a society.

          Overall, however, I judge that I have significant freedom in Quebec and Canada. Within whatever constraints there may be, I can do as I please. I don't have some religious organization looking over my shoulder. I have clean streets and a high level of security. I don't feel that I have to lock my doors at night or when I go into town for a short time.

          eduard

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: C. S. Wyatt
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:08 PM
          Subject: [existlist] Freedoms


          I have a general question:

          How "free" is your specific home province/state/nation?

          What can you do and what can't you do?

          How free do you feel? Do you consider yourself able to exercise free
          will within reasonable constraints?

          Existentialism has struggled with such issues, witness Sartre v.
          Merleau-Ponty and others. How "free" can we be within a social structure?

          How do you define freedom? Freedom from or freedom to? I would rather
          be "free to" than "free from" -- but that includes a lot of risks some
          people would not want to accept.

          I know free will includes the ability to do whatever I want, as long
          as I accept the results. Then again, most of us don't want to risk
          punishment for silly things.

          - C. S. Wyatt



          Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          Yahoo! Groups Links






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Amanda Lemesonoka
          From the moment when individual gets involved into a social structure, he does lose some freedom. Although I look at this loss as very flexible one – many
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 2, 2004
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            From the moment when individual gets involved into a social structure, he does lose some freedom. Although I look at this loss as very flexible one – many say they’re unhappy because of the society, of the country they live in. But if you don’t like the job – look for another, if you think that everything’s wrong in your country – go abroad. Would that last step solve anything? If I’d go to another country, why should I expect that the laws would be wiser there, people more reasonable, government more willing to do changes?

            Other way to solve something is to make changes happen yourself. But in the level where we talk about social structures, that’s not so easy. To do something notable, I have to have supporters. So again – are purely individualistic protests or efforts efficient?

            If I lose the wonderful idea that “I can change the world”, it becomes more easier to live and accept what’s happening. And that doesn’t mean giving up on action. Just live within the limits of freedom that you can’t escape, and do everything you can to make some things change without expect wonders to happen.

            I think that the limit of freedom is more referable to one’s “social role” or “stand”. But there is a sphere where I do have “the most” freedom – that is my personality, me as a person. I am free to define myself, to develop my character, to maintain relationships with people who are close or dear to me, to have some interests. And as I consider this part to be more important over my job, main studies, formal relationships, then I do feel free.
            Amanda




            "C. S. Wyatt" <existlist1@...> wrote: I have a general question:

            How "free" is your specific home province/state/nation?

            What can you do and what can't you do?

            How free do you feel? Do you consider yourself able to exercise free
            will within reasonable constraints?

            Existentialism has struggled with such issues, witness Sartre v.
            Merleau-Ponty and others. How "free" can we be within a social structure?

            How do you define freedom? Freedom from or freedom to? I would rather
            be "free to" than "free from" -- but that includes a lot of risks some
            people would not want to accept.

            I know free will includes the ability to do whatever I want, as long
            as I accept the results. Then again, most of us don't want to risk
            punishment for silly things.

            - C. S. Wyatt



            Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)



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