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Re: [existlist] Re: Independent George meets Relationship George

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  • Amanda Lemesonoka
    Susan, the difference may well be the historical heritage. i sometimes wonder, if people in my country aren t bringing too much of the past (and mostly past
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 1, 2004
      Susan,

      the difference may well be the historical heritage. i sometimes wonder, if people in my country aren't bringing too much of the past (and mostly past insults) with them. it is a matter of course that we know our history and are if not proud then cerain about it. but sometimes when present state or failures are being explained with the sorrowful history we've had makes me feel unhappy. people always tend to blame something for their own lack of doings... sorry that i went a bit off the topic, but the thing i wanted to say was that i also think we, europeans are very very largely influenced by our past and maybe sometimes too much.

      Amanda



      Susan Schnelbach <susan@...> wrote: Louise -

      This is actually similar to a conversation CSW and I had recently. He
      was pointing out the primary difference between Europeans and
      Americans/Canadians - we live in the present because we HAVE no history
      going back hundreds or thousands of years. We couldn't care less what
      happened in 1066 because it has no bearing on immediate life. Americans
      and Canadians aren't surrounded by buildings and history going back
      more than 200 years, so in effect, we have no constant reminders of
      occupation, territory disputes, and age-old disagreements.

      There's no question that there is a massive difference between the west
      side of the pond and the east side - and how we view 'ancient history'
      as we would call it, greatly affects (look, Oliver and Chris, used
      'affect' correctly this time, I think) how we deal with current events.
      Chris was pointing out (from something he read) that even current
      racial (and I'm using the historical connotation behind 'race,' not the
      modern one) reactions to present events follows the patterns of old
      racial and religious affiliations. I believe he was pointing out (or
      rather, Victor Davis Hanson was) that most of Europe is still governed
      by church affiliations.

      In short, the history in Europe still drives the current disagreements
      and wars. In America, this would not happen. If Americans held this
      kind of grudge, we would never have resumed diplomatic relations with
      England after the War of 1912. We would never be tourists in German,
      Japan, or China.

      Is the fact that our lives move faster and we're busier the reason for
      this? Or is it because we just aren't constantly surrounded by
      reminders of our history? Or is this a viewpoint handed down generation
      after generation and no one's kicked the habit yet?

      Susan

      On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 10:12 AM, louise wrote:

      > eduard,
      > maybe there really are massive gulfs between different
      > nationalities, as well as between different individuals. i fear you
      > would think it a joke, at best, if i said that i haven't, as an
      > englishwoman and a northerner, ever really recovered from the
      > knowledge of what happened during William the Conqueror's savage
      > subjugation of the land of my ancestors, even though now, of course,
      > i am many times over descended from those Normans.
      > maybe you canadians are in general much closer to americans than to
      > us english, for example; though the generalisation may be
      > ludicrous. should all this be 'water off a duck's back'?
      > louise
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...> wrote:
      >> Seinfeld was the best TV series in history. But then some people
      > did not like it. Personally, I think it is as Existentialist as you
      > can get.
      >>
      >> eduard
      >> ----- Original Message -----
      >> From: louise
      >> To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      >> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:50 AM
      >> Subject: [existlist] Re: Independent George meets Relationship
      > George
      >>
      >>
      >> eduard,
      >> i might understand the last sentence, but am unsure of the
      > rest.
      >> have seen a bit of 'seinfeld', but wasn't really my cup of tea.
      >> louise
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
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    • Susan Schnelbach
      That s what I was wondering too. I used to work with a Dutchman. I made a crack one day about Dutch/German same difference and got a look of death. He told
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 1, 2004
        That's what I was wondering too.

        I used to work with a Dutchman. I made a crack one day about
        "Dutch/German same difference" and got a look of death. He told me,
        using a look that could kill, that HE WAS NOT GERMAN! He was raised, in
        Holland, to feel certain negative things about Germans even though he
        was my age and not involved in any of the recent world wars.

        The same thing came up from an older pair of Bavarians. They were quite
        clear that they were Bavarian, NOT GERMAN. I thought it was strange at
        the time until I realized that attitude seemed to be common with the
        Europeans I met around here.



        On Monday, March 1, 2004, at 01:04 AM, Amanda Lemesonoka wrote:

        >
        > Susan,
        >
        > the difference may well be the historical heritage. i sometimes
        > wonder, if people in my country aren't bringing too much of the past
        > (and mostly past insults) with them. it is a matter of course that we
        > know our history and are if not proud then cerain about it. but
        > sometimes when present state or failures are being explained with the
        > sorrowful history we've had makes me feel unhappy. people always tend
        > to blame something for their own lack of doings... sorry that i went a
        > bit off the topic, but the thing i wanted to say was that i also think
        > we, europeans are very very largely influenced by our past and maybe
        > sometimes too much.
        >
        > Amanda
        >
        >
        >
        > Susan Schnelbach <susan@...> wrote: Louise -
        >
        > This is actually similar to a conversation CSW and I had recently. He
        > was pointing out the primary difference between Europeans and
        > Americans/Canadians - we live in the present because we HAVE no history
        > going back hundreds or thousands of years. We couldn't care less what
        > happened in 1066 because it has no bearing on immediate life. Americans
        > and Canadians aren't surrounded by buildings and history going back
        > more than 200 years, so in effect, we have no constant reminders of
        > occupation, territory disputes, and age-old disagreements.
        >
        > There's no question that there is a massive difference between the west
        > side of the pond and the east side - and how we view 'ancient history'
        > as we would call it, greatly affects (look, Oliver and Chris, used
        > 'affect' correctly this time, I think) how we deal with current events.
        > Chris was pointing out (from something he read) that even current
        > racial (and I'm using the historical connotation behind 'race,' not the
        > modern one) reactions to present events follows the patterns of old
        > racial and religious affiliations. I believe he was pointing out (or
        > rather, Victor Davis Hanson was) that most of Europe is still governed
        > by church affiliations.
        >
        > In short, the history in Europe still drives the current disagreements
        > and wars. In America, this would not happen. If Americans held this
        > kind of grudge, we would never have resumed diplomatic relations with
        > England after the War of 1912. We would never be tourists in German,
        > Japan, or China.
        >
        > Is the fact that our lives move faster and we're busier the reason for
        > this? Or is it because we just aren't constantly surrounded by
        > reminders of our history? Or is this a viewpoint handed down generation
        > after generation and no one's kicked the habit yet?
        >
        > Susan
        >
        > On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 10:12 AM, louise wrote:
        >
        >> eduard,
        >> maybe there really are massive gulfs between different
        >> nationalities, as well as between different individuals. i fear you
        >> would think it a joke, at best, if i said that i haven't, as an
        >> englishwoman and a northerner, ever really recovered from the
        >> knowledge of what happened during William the Conqueror's savage
        >> subjugation of the land of my ancestors, even though now, of course,
        >> i am many times over descended from those Normans.
        >> maybe you canadians are in general much closer to americans than to
        >> us english, for example; though the generalisation may be
        >> ludicrous. should all this be 'water off a duck's back'?
        >> louise
        >>
        >> --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...> wrote:
        >>> Seinfeld was the best TV series in history. But then some people
        >> did not like it. Personally, I think it is as Existentialist as you
        >> can get.
        >>>
        >>> eduard
        >>> ----- Original Message -----
        >>> From: louise
        >>> To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        >>> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:50 AM
        >>> Subject: [existlist] Re: Independent George meets Relationship
        >> George
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> eduard,
        >>> i might understand the last sentence, but am unsure of the
        >> rest.
        >>> have seen a bit of 'seinfeld', but wasn't really my cup of tea.
        >>> louise
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        >> (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
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        >
        >
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        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
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