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Re: the nameless

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  • Mary Jo Malo
    Biggie, I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness? Jo ... in Existlist. If for no other reason it s one of the few venues in all of Cyberspace where I
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 30, 2004
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      Biggie,

      I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness?

      Jo

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
      wrote:
      > Mary Jo,
      >
      > Yes, from time to time I too feel compelled to squeak [and squawk]
      in Existlist. If for no other reason it's one of the few venues in
      all of Cyberspace where I have not been kicked out. ; )
      >
      > Actually, I am just doing some recon for David and Annie. I'm kind
      of a recruiter now for The Troupe. I plop down particularly bleak
      nihilistic rants---thus the preponderance of Emile Cioran---as bait.
      Just trying to ensnare fellow nihilists, as it were.
      >
      > I'm beginning to think however that, alas, all 9 of us are already
      ensnared!! Still, I sneak the occasional peak at posts from you and
      Bill and Eduard etc to see if any of you have finally collapsed.
      >
      > Not so far, but God willing....
      >
      >
      >
      > Biggie
      >
      >
      > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
      > squeak
      >
      > Yes.
      >
      > Jo
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "iambiguously"
      <iambiguously@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > From Simon Critchley's "Very Little...Almost Nothing":
      > >
      > > "We cannot speak of that which we would like to speak...and yet
      we
      > > cannot not speak, blissful though this might seem: 'you must go
      on,
      > I
      > > can't go on, I'll go on'. There is only this voice, this
      > meaningless
      > > voice 'which prevents you from being nothing' and all it has are
      > > words 'and not many of them'. And even when Malone writes 'I am
      > lost,
      > > not a word..or Krapp says 'Nothing to say, not a squeak', this is
      > not
      > > yet silence, it is yet a word, a squeak."
      > >
      > > Yet lots and lots of things can be named, of course. And with a
      > > rather high degree of objectivity: rock, tree, mountain, gravity,
      > > molecule, arm, lightning, tornado, felatio, flute, rape, fetus,
      > Iraq,
      > > Congress, dictionary.
      > >
      > > Most of the words we use from day to day, in fact, are merely
      > > understood to mean what they do and almost no one questions it.
      Nor
      > > should they. They simply describe what is.
      > >
      > > But there are also words that name only what we think they mean---
      > and
      > > can never name more; words that can never be denoted objectively:
      > > freedom, justice, right, wrong, good, bad...truth...being and
      > > nothingness. In fact, many of the words used to discuss human
      moral
      > > and political interaction, emotional and psychological states,
      > > identity, aesthetics, ontology, teleology etc. really are just
      > > squeaks for all intents and purposes. Yet these, alas, are the
      most
      > > important words of all in venues like this one.
      > >
      > > Right?
      > >
      > > Biggie
      >
      >
      >
      > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
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      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      Service.
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
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      > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • George Walton
      Ingenuity leaps to mind. ; ) Mary Jo Malo wrote:Biggie, I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness? Jo ... in Existlist. If for
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 31, 2004
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        Ingenuity leaps to mind. ; )

        Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@...> wrote:Biggie,

        I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness?

        Jo

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
        wrote:
        > Mary Jo,
        >
        > Yes, from time to time I too feel compelled to squeak [and squawk]
        in Existlist. If for no other reason it's one of the few venues in
        all of Cyberspace where I have not been kicked out. ; )
        >
        > Actually, I am just doing some recon for David and Annie. I'm kind
        of a recruiter now for The Troupe. I plop down particularly bleak
        nihilistic rants---thus the preponderance of Emile Cioran---as bait.
        Just trying to ensnare fellow nihilists, as it were.
        >
        > I'm beginning to think however that, alas, all 9 of us are already
        ensnared!! Still, I sneak the occasional peak at posts from you and
        Bill and Eduard etc to see if any of you have finally collapsed.
        >
        > Not so far, but God willing....
        >
        >
        >
        > Biggie
        >
        >
        > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
        > squeak
        >
        > Yes.
        >
        > Jo
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "iambiguously"
        <iambiguously@y...>
        > wrote:
        > > From Simon Critchley's "Very Little...Almost Nothing":
        > >
        > > "We cannot speak of that which we would like to speak...and yet
        we
        > > cannot not speak, blissful though this might seem: 'you must go
        on,
        > I
        > > can't go on, I'll go on'. There is only this voice, this
        > meaningless
        > > voice 'which prevents you from being nothing' and all it has are
        > > words 'and not many of them'. And even when Malone writes 'I am
        > lost,
        > > not a word..or Krapp says 'Nothing to say, not a squeak', this is
        > not
        > > yet silence, it is yet a word, a squeak."
        > >
        > > Yet lots and lots of things can be named, of course. And with a
        > > rather high degree of objectivity: rock, tree, mountain, gravity,
        > > molecule, arm, lightning, tornado, felatio, flute, rape, fetus,
        > Iraq,
        > > Congress, dictionary.
        > >
        > > Most of the words we use from day to day, in fact, are merely
        > > understood to mean what they do and almost no one questions it.
        Nor
        > > should they. They simply describe what is.
        > >
        > > But there are also words that name only what we think they mean---
        > and
        > > can never name more; words that can never be denoted objectively:
        > > freedom, justice, right, wrong, good, bad...truth...being and
        > > nothingness. In fact, many of the words used to discuss human
        moral
        > > and political interaction, emotional and psychological states,
        > > identity, aesthetics, ontology, teleology etc. really are just
        > > squeaks for all intents and purposes. Yet these, alas, are the
        most
        > > important words of all in venues like this one.
        > >
        > > Right?
        > >
        > > Biggie
        >
        >
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)



        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/

        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




        ---------------------------------
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        Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mary Jo Malo
        Biggie, Clever is fun. Being the provocative or evocative clown apparently gives meaning to your life, and you cause us to seriously question what we say
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 31, 2004
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          Biggie,

          Clever is fun. Being the provocative or evocative "clown" apparently
          gives meaning to your life, and you cause us to seriously question
          what we say here. You force us to contemplate the words we use, and
          that's something we need to do from time to time. I do "get" you, but
          I don't always "like" you ;-) I have a question about your psychology
          prone acquaintances which involves the practice of psychology rather
          than the academics. How do psychologists NOT influence their patients
          with their personal perspectives. I mean look at the abuses
          of "recovered memories", "Christian counselors", and now, heaven
          forbid the possibility of "Nihilist" shrinks. Seriously, I can
          understand an existentialist psychiatrist, but a nihilist? Perhaps I
          don't recall your explanation of all this, or this isn't related at
          all. Perhaps I'm raising a general question for discussion in this
          group. I can't say for certain ;-)

          Mary Jo

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
          wrote:
          > Ingenuity leaps to mind. ; )
          >
          > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:Biggie,
          >
          > I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness?
          >
          > Jo
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > Mary Jo,
          > >
          > > Yes, from time to time I too feel compelled to squeak [and
          squawk]
          > in Existlist. If for no other reason it's one of the few venues in
          > all of Cyberspace where I have not been kicked out. ; )
          > >
          > > Actually, I am just doing some recon for David and Annie. I'm
          kind
          > of a recruiter now for The Troupe. I plop down particularly bleak
          > nihilistic rants---thus the preponderance of Emile Cioran---as
          bait.
          > Just trying to ensnare fellow nihilists, as it were.
          > >
          > > I'm beginning to think however that, alas, all 9 of us are
          already
          > ensnared!! Still, I sneak the occasional peak at posts from you
          and
          > Bill and Eduard etc to see if any of you have finally collapsed.
          > >
          > > Not so far, but God willing....
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Biggie
          > >
          > >
          > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
          > > squeak
          > >
          > > Yes.
          > >
          > > Jo
          > >
          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "iambiguously"
          > <iambiguously@y...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > From Simon Critchley's "Very Little...Almost Nothing":
          > > >
          > > > "We cannot speak of that which we would like to speak...and yet
          > we
          > > > cannot not speak, blissful though this might seem: 'you must go
          > on,
          > > I
          > > > can't go on, I'll go on'. There is only this voice, this
          > > meaningless
          > > > voice 'which prevents you from being nothing' and all it has
          are
          > > > words 'and not many of them'. And even when Malone writes 'I am
          > > lost,
          > > > not a word..or Krapp says 'Nothing to say, not a squeak', this
          is
          > > not
          > > > yet silence, it is yet a word, a squeak."
          > > >
          > > > Yet lots and lots of things can be named, of course. And with a
          > > > rather high degree of objectivity: rock, tree, mountain,
          gravity,
          > > > molecule, arm, lightning, tornado, felatio, flute, rape, fetus,
          > > Iraq,
          > > > Congress, dictionary.
          > > >
          > > > Most of the words we use from day to day, in fact, are merely
          > > > understood to mean what they do and almost no one questions it.
          > Nor
          > > > should they. They simply describe what is.
          > > >
          > > > But there are also words that name only what we think they mean-
          --
          > > and
          > > > can never name more; words that can never be denoted
          objectively:
          > > > freedom, justice, right, wrong, good, bad...truth...being and
          > > > nothingness. In fact, many of the words used to discuss human
          > moral
          > > > and political interaction, emotional and psychological states,
          > > > identity, aesthetics, ontology, teleology etc. really are just
          > > > squeaks for all intents and purposes. Yet these, alas, are the
          > most
          > > > important words of all in venues like this one.
          > > >
          > > > Right?
          > > >
          > > > Biggie
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • George Walton
          Mary Jo, No, you do not get me. Otherwise, I would be extending you an invitation to meet David and Annie...to consider participating in the Spin Cycle with
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 31, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Mary Jo,

            No, you do not "get" me. Otherwise, I would be extending you an invitation to meet David and Annie...to consider participating in the Spin Cycle with The Troupe.

            But that is merely a point of view, right? And hardly an important one. It's not like The Troupe is the CIA or some super secret organization that moves the world. We are just a bunch of ordinary folks intrigued with transfiguring what John Fowles did in The Magus [re the relationship between Nicholas, Conchis, June and Julie] out into cyberspace. I don't even participate actively anymore. Just occasionally. And, again, I go fishing for minds---for nihilists of a particular bent.

            And you don't really like or dislike me at all. Why? Because you don't know me. You know only the persona I project in rooms like this. But, then, that flows the same way from you to me, right? That, in part, is what makes cyberspace discussions so intriguing---and surreal. And it is all about words, by and large.

            David is not a practising psychologist. He does not see patients. He does research, by and large. How he "influences" others, however, is by reintroducing them to language. Words acquire what he calls a "magical and mystical" quality in human discourse. We name things, in other words. But some things cannot be named. Not really. So, he is fascinated by the relationships between language and idealism and ideology and psychological defense mechanisms. It relates to Milan Kundera's conjecture about weighting down the unbearable lightness of being. And one of the easiest ways to do that, of course, is with words. We make them mean what we want them to name...and, concomittantly, what we want them to name is what we think will make us feel grounded psychologically.

            Biggie





            Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@...> wrote:
            Biggie,

            Clever is fun. Being the provocative or evocative "clown" apparently
            gives meaning to your life, and you cause us to seriously question
            what we say here. You force us to contemplate the words we use, and
            that's something we need to do from time to time. I do "get" you, but
            I don't always "like" you ;-) I have a question about your psychology
            prone acquaintances which involves the practice of psychology rather
            than the academics. How do psychologists NOT influence their patients
            with their personal perspectives. I mean look at the abuses
            of "recovered memories", "Christian counselors", and now, heaven
            forbid the possibility of "Nihilist" shrinks. Seriously, I can
            understand an existentialist psychiatrist, but a nihilist? Perhaps I
            don't recall your explanation of all this, or this isn't related at
            all. Perhaps I'm raising a general question for discussion in this
            group. I can't say for certain ;-)

            Mary Jo

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
            wrote:
            > Ingenuity leaps to mind. ; )
            >
            > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:Biggie,
            >
            > I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness?
            >
            > Jo
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Mary Jo,
            > >
            > > Yes, from time to time I too feel compelled to squeak [and
            squawk]
            > in Existlist. If for no other reason it's one of the few venues in
            > all of Cyberspace where I have not been kicked out. ; )
            > >
            > > Actually, I am just doing some recon for David and Annie. I'm
            kind
            > of a recruiter now for The Troupe. I plop down particularly bleak
            > nihilistic rants---thus the preponderance of Emile Cioran---as
            bait.
            > Just trying to ensnare fellow nihilists, as it were.
            > >
            > > I'm beginning to think however that, alas, all 9 of us are
            already
            > ensnared!! Still, I sneak the occasional peak at posts from you
            and
            > Bill and Eduard etc to see if any of you have finally collapsed.
            > >
            > > Not so far, but God willing....
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Biggie
            > >
            > >
            > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
            > > squeak
            > >
            > > Yes.
            > >
            > > Jo
            > >
            > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "iambiguously"
            > <iambiguously@y...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > From Simon Critchley's "Very Little...Almost Nothing":
            > > >
            > > > "We cannot speak of that which we would like to speak...and yet
            > we
            > > > cannot not speak, blissful though this might seem: 'you must go
            > on,
            > > I
            > > > can't go on, I'll go on'. There is only this voice, this
            > > meaningless
            > > > voice 'which prevents you from being nothing' and all it has
            are
            > > > words 'and not many of them'. And even when Malone writes 'I am
            > > lost,
            > > > not a word..or Krapp says 'Nothing to say, not a squeak', this
            is
            > > not
            > > > yet silence, it is yet a word, a squeak."
            > > >
            > > > Yet lots and lots of things can be named, of course. And with a
            > > > rather high degree of objectivity: rock, tree, mountain,
            gravity,
            > > > molecule, arm, lightning, tornado, felatio, flute, rape, fetus,
            > > Iraq,
            > > > Congress, dictionary.
            > > >
            > > > Most of the words we use from day to day, in fact, are merely
            > > > understood to mean what they do and almost no one questions it.
            > Nor
            > > > should they. They simply describe what is.
            > > >
            > > > But there are also words that name only what we think they mean-
            --
            > > and
            > > > can never name more; words that can never be denoted
            objectively:
            > > > freedom, justice, right, wrong, good, bad...truth...being and
            > > > nothingness. In fact, many of the words used to discuss human
            > moral
            > > > and political interaction, emotional and psychological states,
            > > > identity, aesthetics, ontology, teleology etc. really are just
            > > > squeaks for all intents and purposes. Yet these, alas, are the
            > most
            > > > important words of all in venues like this one.
            > > >
            > > > Right?
            > > >
            > > > Biggie
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)



            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            ---------------------------------
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mary Jo Malo
            Biggie, By projected persona do you mean intentionally deceptive, or since we don t have a personality or self; we are projecting what we believe to be our
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 31, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Biggie,

              By projected persona do you mean intentionally deceptive, or since we
              don't have a personality or self; we are projecting what we believe
              to be our true self?

              Mary Jo

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
              wrote:
              > Mary Jo,
              >
              > No, you do not "get" me. Otherwise, I would be extending you an
              invitation to meet David and Annie...to consider participating in the
              Spin Cycle with The Troupe.
              >
              > But that is merely a point of view, right? And hardly an important
              one. It's not like The Troupe is the CIA or some super secret
              organization that moves the world. We are just a bunch of ordinary
              folks intrigued with transfiguring what John Fowles did in The Magus
              [re the relationship between Nicholas, Conchis, June and Julie] out
              into cyberspace. I don't even participate actively anymore. Just
              occasionally. And, again, I go fishing for minds---for nihilists of a
              particular bent.
              >
              > And you don't really like or dislike me at all. Why? Because you
              don't know me. You know only the persona I project in rooms like
              this. But, then, that flows the same way from you to me, right? That,
              in part, is what makes cyberspace discussions so intriguing---and
              surreal. And it is all about words, by and large.
              >
              > David is not a practising psychologist. He does not see patients.
              He does research, by and large. How he "influences" others, however,
              is by reintroducing them to language. Words acquire what he calls
              a "magical and mystical" quality in human discourse. We name things,
              in other words. But some things cannot be named. Not really. So, he
              is fascinated by the relationships between language and idealism and
              ideology and psychological defense mechanisms. It relates to Milan
              Kundera's conjecture about weighting down the unbearable lightness of
              being. And one of the easiest ways to do that, of course, is with
              words. We make them mean what we want them to name...and,
              concomittantly, what we want them to name is what we think will make
              us feel grounded psychologically.
              >
              > Biggie
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
              > Biggie,
              >
              > Clever is fun. Being the provocative or evocative "clown"
              apparently
              > gives meaning to your life, and you cause us to seriously question
              > what we say here. You force us to contemplate the words we use, and
              > that's something we need to do from time to time. I do "get" you,
              but
              > I don't always "like" you ;-) I have a question about your
              psychology
              > prone acquaintances which involves the practice of psychology
              rather
              > than the academics. How do psychologists NOT influence their
              patients
              > with their personal perspectives. I mean look at the abuses
              > of "recovered memories", "Christian counselors", and now, heaven
              > forbid the possibility of "Nihilist" shrinks. Seriously, I can
              > understand an existentialist psychiatrist, but a nihilist? Perhaps
              I
              > don't recall your explanation of all this, or this isn't related at
              > all. Perhaps I'm raising a general question for discussion in this
              > group. I can't say for certain ;-)
              >
              > Mary Jo
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > Ingenuity leaps to mind. ; )
              > >
              > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:Biggie,
              > >
              > > I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness?
              > >
              > > Jo
              > >
              > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton
              <iambiguously@y...>
              > > wrote:
              > > > Mary Jo,
              > > >
              > > > Yes, from time to time I too feel compelled to squeak [and
              > squawk]
              > > in Existlist. If for no other reason it's one of the few venues
              in
              > > all of Cyberspace where I have not been kicked out. ; )
              > > >
              > > > Actually, I am just doing some recon for David and Annie. I'm
              > kind
              > > of a recruiter now for The Troupe. I plop down particularly bleak
              > > nihilistic rants---thus the preponderance of Emile Cioran---as
              > bait.
              > > Just trying to ensnare fellow nihilists, as it were.
              > > >
              > > > I'm beginning to think however that, alas, all 9 of us are
              > already
              > > ensnared!! Still, I sneak the occasional peak at posts from you
              > and
              > > Bill and Eduard etc to see if any of you have finally collapsed.
              > > >
              > > > Not so far, but God willing....
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Biggie
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
              > > > squeak
              > > >
              > > > Yes.
              > > >
              > > > Jo
              > > >
              > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "iambiguously"
              > > <iambiguously@y...>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > > From Simon Critchley's "Very Little...Almost Nothing":
              > > > >
              > > > > "We cannot speak of that which we would like to speak...and
              yet
              > > we
              > > > > cannot not speak, blissful though this might seem: 'you must
              go
              > > on,
              > > > I
              > > > > can't go on, I'll go on'. There is only this voice, this
              > > > meaningless
              > > > > voice 'which prevents you from being nothing' and all it has
              > are
              > > > > words 'and not many of them'. And even when Malone writes 'I
              am
              > > > lost,
              > > > > not a word..or Krapp says 'Nothing to say, not a squeak',
              this
              > is
              > > > not
              > > > > yet silence, it is yet a word, a squeak."
              > > > >
              > > > > Yet lots and lots of things can be named, of course. And with
              a
              > > > > rather high degree of objectivity: rock, tree, mountain,
              > gravity,
              > > > > molecule, arm, lightning, tornado, felatio, flute, rape,
              fetus,
              > > > Iraq,
              > > > > Congress, dictionary.
              > > > >
              > > > > Most of the words we use from day to day, in fact, are merely
              > > > > understood to mean what they do and almost no one questions
              it.
              > > Nor
              > > > > should they. They simply describe what is.
              > > > >
              > > > > But there are also words that name only what we think they
              mean-
              > --
              > > > and
              > > > > can never name more; words that can never be denoted
              > objectively:
              > > > > freedom, justice, right, wrong, good, bad...truth...being and
              > > > > nothingness. In fact, many of the words used to discuss human
              > > moral
              > > > > and political interaction, emotional and psychological
              states,
              > > > > identity, aesthetics, ontology, teleology etc. really are
              just
              > > > > squeaks for all intents and purposes. Yet these, alas, are
              the
              > > most
              > > > > important words of all in venues like this one.
              > > > >
              > > > > Right?
              > > > >
              > > > > Biggie
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ---------------------------------
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
              > > >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > > Service.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ---------------------------------
              > > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mary Jo Malo
              Biggie, Is David published? I d be interested in reading his work. I would say that the only thing you and I have in common IS the acknowledgment of the power
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 31, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Biggie,

                Is David published? I'd be interested in reading his work. I would
                say that the only thing you and I have in common IS the
                acknowledgment of the power of words. I'm interested in how and why
                people use words to communicate basically nothing to one another.

                Mary Jo

                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
                wrote:
                > Mary Jo,
                >
                > No, you do not "get" me. Otherwise, I would be extending you an
                invitation to meet David and Annie...to consider participating in the
                Spin Cycle with The Troupe.
                >
                > But that is merely a point of view, right? And hardly an important
                one. It's not like The Troupe is the CIA or some super secret
                organization that moves the world. We are just a bunch of ordinary
                folks intrigued with transfiguring what John Fowles did in The Magus
                [re the relationship between Nicholas, Conchis, June and Julie] out
                into cyberspace. I don't even participate actively anymore. Just
                occasionally. And, again, I go fishing for minds---for nihilists of a
                particular bent.
                >
                > And you don't really like or dislike me at all. Why? Because you
                don't know me. You know only the persona I project in rooms like
                this. But, then, that flows the same way from you to me, right? That,
                in part, is what makes cyberspace discussions so intriguing---and
                surreal. And it is all about words, by and large.
                >
                > David is not a practising psychologist. He does not see patients.
                He does research, by and large. How he "influences" others, however,
                is by reintroducing them to language. Words acquire what he calls
                a "magical and mystical" quality in human discourse. We name things,
                in other words. But some things cannot be named. Not really. So, he
                is fascinated by the relationships between language and idealism and
                ideology and psychological defense mechanisms. It relates to Milan
                Kundera's conjecture about weighting down the unbearable lightness of
                being. And one of the easiest ways to do that, of course, is with
                words. We make them mean what we want them to name...and,
                concomittantly, what we want them to name is what we think will make
                us feel grounded psychologically.
                >
                > Biggie
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                > Biggie,
                >
                > Clever is fun. Being the provocative or evocative "clown"
                apparently
                > gives meaning to your life, and you cause us to seriously question
                > what we say here. You force us to contemplate the words we use, and
                > that's something we need to do from time to time. I do "get" you,
                but
                > I don't always "like" you ;-) I have a question about your
                psychology
                > prone acquaintances which involves the practice of psychology
                rather
                > than the academics. How do psychologists NOT influence their
                patients
                > with their personal perspectives. I mean look at the abuses
                > of "recovered memories", "Christian counselors", and now, heaven
                > forbid the possibility of "Nihilist" shrinks. Seriously, I can
                > understand an existentialist psychiatrist, but a nihilist? Perhaps
                I
                > don't recall your explanation of all this, or this isn't related at
                > all. Perhaps I'm raising a general question for discussion in this
                > group. I can't say for certain ;-)
                >
                > Mary Jo
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
                > wrote:
                > > Ingenuity leaps to mind. ; )
                > >
                > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:Biggie,
                > >
                > > I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness?
                > >
                > > Jo
                > >
                > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton
                <iambiguously@y...>
                > > wrote:
                > > > Mary Jo,
                > > >
                > > > Yes, from time to time I too feel compelled to squeak [and
                > squawk]
                > > in Existlist. If for no other reason it's one of the few venues
                in
                > > all of Cyberspace where I have not been kicked out. ; )
                > > >
                > > > Actually, I am just doing some recon for David and Annie. I'm
                > kind
                > > of a recruiter now for The Troupe. I plop down particularly bleak
                > > nihilistic rants---thus the preponderance of Emile Cioran---as
                > bait.
                > > Just trying to ensnare fellow nihilists, as it were.
                > > >
                > > > I'm beginning to think however that, alas, all 9 of us are
                > already
                > > ensnared!! Still, I sneak the occasional peak at posts from you
                > and
                > > Bill and Eduard etc to see if any of you have finally collapsed.
                > > >
                > > > Not so far, but God willing....
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Biggie
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                > > > squeak
                > > >
                > > > Yes.
                > > >
                > > > Jo
                > > >
                > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "iambiguously"
                > > <iambiguously@y...>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > > From Simon Critchley's "Very Little...Almost Nothing":
                > > > >
                > > > > "We cannot speak of that which we would like to speak...and
                yet
                > > we
                > > > > cannot not speak, blissful though this might seem: 'you must
                go
                > > on,
                > > > I
                > > > > can't go on, I'll go on'. There is only this voice, this
                > > > meaningless
                > > > > voice 'which prevents you from being nothing' and all it has
                > are
                > > > > words 'and not many of them'. And even when Malone writes 'I
                am
                > > > lost,
                > > > > not a word..or Krapp says 'Nothing to say, not a squeak',
                this
                > is
                > > > not
                > > > > yet silence, it is yet a word, a squeak."
                > > > >
                > > > > Yet lots and lots of things can be named, of course. And with
                a
                > > > > rather high degree of objectivity: rock, tree, mountain,
                > gravity,
                > > > > molecule, arm, lightning, tornado, felatio, flute, rape,
                fetus,
                > > > Iraq,
                > > > > Congress, dictionary.
                > > > >
                > > > > Most of the words we use from day to day, in fact, are merely
                > > > > understood to mean what they do and almost no one questions
                it.
                > > Nor
                > > > > should they. They simply describe what is.
                > > > >
                > > > > But there are also words that name only what we think they
                mean-
                > --
                > > > and
                > > > > can never name more; words that can never be denoted
                > objectively:
                > > > > freedom, justice, right, wrong, good, bad...truth...being and
                > > > > nothingness. In fact, many of the words used to discuss human
                > > moral
                > > > > and political interaction, emotional and psychological
                states,
                > > > > identity, aesthetics, ontology, teleology etc. really are
                just
                > > > > squeaks for all intents and purposes. Yet these, alas, are
                the
                > > most
                > > > > important words of all in venues like this one.
                > > > >
                > > > > Right?
                > > > >
                > > > > Biggie
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ---------------------------------
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                > > >
                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > > Service.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ---------------------------------
                > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • George Walton
                Mary Jo, Not sure if you have ever read The Magus but, if not, the projected persona is a role one plays. Conchis and June and Julie weave a tapestry around
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 31, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mary Jo,

                  Not sure if you have ever read The Magus but, if not, the "projected" persona is a role one plays. Conchis and June and Julie weave a tapestry around Nicholas and he is "spun" into the story. It is as though, for example, you went to the theatre to see a play and the next thing you know you are up on the stage with the actors. They are spinning you around and around but since you are not part of the original "script" how you react is still, in part, spontaneous and thus changes the dynamics of the play. The difference being that it takes some time before Nicholas begins to realize he is ensnared in the web whereas when you go to the theatre, even if you end up "in" the play, you know it is one right from the start. What becomes fascinating, however, is that the spinning becomes both more and less contrived as it begins to dawn on Nicholas that he is perhaps "only a pawn in their game". And so, in turn, he tries to make them pawns in his rendition of the play. But it's a stacked deck,
                  to say the least. Why? Because Fowles is writng the novel and he holds all the cards. Or does he? That is where more "postmodern" interpretations of the "text" come into....uh...."play", eh?

                  David sees this, of course, as a psychological metaphor for human interactions both on and off the stage. In other words, you can begin to understand the way in which you are profoundly conditioned----but "you" are still ensnared. And the only exist is the last one. If you know what I mean.

                  Biggie

                  Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@...> wrote:
                  Biggie,

                  By projected persona do you mean intentionally deceptive, or since we
                  don't have a personality or self; we are projecting what we believe
                  to be our true self?

                  Mary Jo

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Mary Jo,
                  >
                  > No, you do not "get" me. Otherwise, I would be extending you an
                  invitation to meet David and Annie...to consider participating in the
                  Spin Cycle with The Troupe.
                  >
                  > But that is merely a point of view, right? And hardly an important
                  one. It's not like The Troupe is the CIA or some super secret
                  organization that moves the world. We are just a bunch of ordinary
                  folks intrigued with transfiguring what John Fowles did in The Magus
                  [re the relationship between Nicholas, Conchis, June and Julie] out
                  into cyberspace. I don't even participate actively anymore. Just
                  occasionally. And, again, I go fishing for minds---for nihilists of a
                  particular bent.
                  >
                  > And you don't really like or dislike me at all. Why? Because you
                  don't know me. You know only the persona I project in rooms like
                  this. But, then, that flows the same way from you to me, right? That,
                  in part, is what makes cyberspace discussions so intriguing---and
                  surreal. And it is all about words, by and large.
                  >
                  > David is not a practising psychologist. He does not see patients.
                  He does research, by and large. How he "influences" others, however,
                  is by reintroducing them to language. Words acquire what he calls
                  a "magical and mystical" quality in human discourse. We name things,
                  in other words. But some things cannot be named. Not really. So, he
                  is fascinated by the relationships between language and idealism and
                  ideology and psychological defense mechanisms. It relates to Milan
                  Kundera's conjecture about weighting down the unbearable lightness of
                  being. And one of the easiest ways to do that, of course, is with
                  words. We make them mean what we want them to name...and,
                  concomittantly, what we want them to name is what we think will make
                  us feel grounded psychologically.
                  >
                  > Biggie
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                  > Biggie,
                  >
                  > Clever is fun. Being the provocative or evocative "clown"
                  apparently
                  > gives meaning to your life, and you cause us to seriously question
                  > what we say here. You force us to contemplate the words we use, and
                  > that's something we need to do from time to time. I do "get" you,
                  but
                  > I don't always "like" you ;-) I have a question about your
                  psychology
                  > prone acquaintances which involves the practice of psychology
                  rather
                  > than the academics. How do psychologists NOT influence their
                  patients
                  > with their personal perspectives. I mean look at the abuses
                  > of "recovered memories", "Christian counselors", and now, heaven
                  > forbid the possibility of "Nihilist" shrinks. Seriously, I can
                  > understand an existentialist psychiatrist, but a nihilist? Perhaps
                  I
                  > don't recall your explanation of all this, or this isn't related at
                  > all. Perhaps I'm raising a general question for discussion in this
                  > group. I can't say for certain ;-)
                  >
                  > Mary Jo
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Ingenuity leaps to mind. ; )
                  > >
                  > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:Biggie,
                  > >
                  > > I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness?
                  > >
                  > > Jo
                  > >
                  > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton
                  <iambiguously@y...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > Mary Jo,
                  > > >
                  > > > Yes, from time to time I too feel compelled to squeak [and
                  > squawk]
                  > > in Existlist. If for no other reason it's one of the few venues
                  in
                  > > all of Cyberspace where I have not been kicked out. ; )
                  > > >
                  > > > Actually, I am just doing some recon for David and Annie. I'm
                  > kind
                  > > of a recruiter now for The Troupe. I plop down particularly bleak
                  > > nihilistic rants---thus the preponderance of Emile Cioran---as
                  > bait.
                  > > Just trying to ensnare fellow nihilists, as it were.
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm beginning to think however that, alas, all 9 of us are
                  > already
                  > > ensnared!! Still, I sneak the occasional peak at posts from you
                  > and
                  > > Bill and Eduard etc to see if any of you have finally collapsed.
                  > > >
                  > > > Not so far, but God willing....
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Biggie
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                  > > > squeak
                  > > >
                  > > > Yes.
                  > > >
                  > > > Jo
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "iambiguously"
                  > > <iambiguously@y...>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > > From Simon Critchley's "Very Little...Almost Nothing":
                  > > > >
                  > > > > "We cannot speak of that which we would like to speak...and
                  yet
                  > > we
                  > > > > cannot not speak, blissful though this might seem: 'you must
                  go
                  > > on,
                  > > > I
                  > > > > can't go on, I'll go on'. There is only this voice, this
                  > > > meaningless
                  > > > > voice 'which prevents you from being nothing' and all it has
                  > are
                  > > > > words 'and not many of them'. And even when Malone writes 'I
                  am
                  > > > lost,
                  > > > > not a word..or Krapp says 'Nothing to say, not a squeak',
                  this
                  > is
                  > > > not
                  > > > > yet silence, it is yet a word, a squeak."
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yet lots and lots of things can be named, of course. And with
                  a
                  > > > > rather high degree of objectivity: rock, tree, mountain,
                  > gravity,
                  > > > > molecule, arm, lightning, tornado, felatio, flute, rape,
                  fetus,
                  > > > Iraq,
                  > > > > Congress, dictionary.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Most of the words we use from day to day, in fact, are merely
                  > > > > understood to mean what they do and almost no one questions
                  it.
                  > > Nor
                  > > > > should they. They simply describe what is.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > But there are also words that name only what we think they
                  mean-
                  > --
                  > > > and
                  > > > > can never name more; words that can never be denoted
                  > objectively:
                  > > > > freedom, justice, right, wrong, good, bad...truth...being and
                  > > > > nothingness. In fact, many of the words used to discuss human
                  > > moral
                  > > > > and political interaction, emotional and psychological
                  states,
                  > > > > identity, aesthetics, ontology, teleology etc. really are
                  just
                  > > > > squeaks for all intents and purposes. Yet these, alas, are
                  the
                  > > most
                  > > > > important words of all in venues like this one.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Right?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Biggie
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                  > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                  > > >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
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                • George Walton
                  No, he is not. At least not that I am aware of. Mary Jo Malo wrote:Biggie, Is David published? I d be interested in reading his work. I
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 31, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    No, he is not. At least not that I am aware of.

                    Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@...> wrote:Biggie,

                    Is David published? I'd be interested in reading his work. I would
                    say that the only thing you and I have in common IS the
                    acknowledgment of the power of words. I'm interested in how and why
                    people use words to communicate basically nothing to one another.

                    Mary Jo

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Mary Jo,
                    >
                    > No, you do not "get" me. Otherwise, I would be extending you an
                    invitation to meet David and Annie...to consider participating in the
                    Spin Cycle with The Troupe.
                    >
                    > But that is merely a point of view, right? And hardly an important
                    one. It's not like The Troupe is the CIA or some super secret
                    organization that moves the world. We are just a bunch of ordinary
                    folks intrigued with transfiguring what John Fowles did in The Magus
                    [re the relationship between Nicholas, Conchis, June and Julie] out
                    into cyberspace. I don't even participate actively anymore. Just
                    occasionally. And, again, I go fishing for minds---for nihilists of a
                    particular bent.
                    >
                    > And you don't really like or dislike me at all. Why? Because you
                    don't know me. You know only the persona I project in rooms like
                    this. But, then, that flows the same way from you to me, right? That,
                    in part, is what makes cyberspace discussions so intriguing---and
                    surreal. And it is all about words, by and large.
                    >
                    > David is not a practising psychologist. He does not see patients.
                    He does research, by and large. How he "influences" others, however,
                    is by reintroducing them to language. Words acquire what he calls
                    a "magical and mystical" quality in human discourse. We name things,
                    in other words. But some things cannot be named. Not really. So, he
                    is fascinated by the relationships between language and idealism and
                    ideology and psychological defense mechanisms. It relates to Milan
                    Kundera's conjecture about weighting down the unbearable lightness of
                    being. And one of the easiest ways to do that, of course, is with
                    words. We make them mean what we want them to name...and,
                    concomittantly, what we want them to name is what we think will make
                    us feel grounded psychologically.
                    >
                    > Biggie
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                    > Biggie,
                    >
                    > Clever is fun. Being the provocative or evocative "clown"
                    apparently
                    > gives meaning to your life, and you cause us to seriously question
                    > what we say here. You force us to contemplate the words we use, and
                    > that's something we need to do from time to time. I do "get" you,
                    but
                    > I don't always "like" you ;-) I have a question about your
                    psychology
                    > prone acquaintances which involves the practice of psychology
                    rather
                    > than the academics. How do psychologists NOT influence their
                    patients
                    > with their personal perspectives. I mean look at the abuses
                    > of "recovered memories", "Christian counselors", and now, heaven
                    > forbid the possibility of "Nihilist" shrinks. Seriously, I can
                    > understand an existentialist psychiatrist, but a nihilist? Perhaps
                    I
                    > don't recall your explanation of all this, or this isn't related at
                    > all. Perhaps I'm raising a general question for discussion in this
                    > group. I can't say for certain ;-)
                    >
                    > Mary Jo
                    >
                    > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton <iambiguously@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > Ingenuity leaps to mind. ; )
                    > >
                    > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:Biggie,
                    > >
                    > > I admire your integrity, or is that stubborness?
                    > >
                    > > Jo
                    > >
                    > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, George Walton
                    <iambiguously@y...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Mary Jo,
                    > > >
                    > > > Yes, from time to time I too feel compelled to squeak [and
                    > squawk]
                    > > in Existlist. If for no other reason it's one of the few venues
                    in
                    > > all of Cyberspace where I have not been kicked out. ; )
                    > > >
                    > > > Actually, I am just doing some recon for David and Annie. I'm
                    > kind
                    > > of a recruiter now for The Troupe. I plop down particularly bleak
                    > > nihilistic rants---thus the preponderance of Emile Cioran---as
                    > bait.
                    > > Just trying to ensnare fellow nihilists, as it were.
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm beginning to think however that, alas, all 9 of us are
                    > already
                    > > ensnared!! Still, I sneak the occasional peak at posts from you
                    > and
                    > > Bill and Eduard etc to see if any of you have finally collapsed.
                    > > >
                    > > > Not so far, but God willing....
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Biggie
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@y...> wrote:
                    > > > squeak
                    > > >
                    > > > Yes.
                    > > >
                    > > > Jo
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "iambiguously"
                    > > <iambiguously@y...>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > > From Simon Critchley's "Very Little...Almost Nothing":
                    > > > >
                    > > > > "We cannot speak of that which we would like to speak...and
                    yet
                    > > we
                    > > > > cannot not speak, blissful though this might seem: 'you must
                    go
                    > > on,
                    > > > I
                    > > > > can't go on, I'll go on'. There is only this voice, this
                    > > > meaningless
                    > > > > voice 'which prevents you from being nothing' and all it has
                    > are
                    > > > > words 'and not many of them'. And even when Malone writes 'I
                    am
                    > > > lost,
                    > > > > not a word..or Krapp says 'Nothing to say, not a squeak',
                    this
                    > is
                    > > > not
                    > > > > yet silence, it is yet a word, a squeak."
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yet lots and lots of things can be named, of course. And with
                    a
                    > > > > rather high degree of objectivity: rock, tree, mountain,
                    > gravity,
                    > > > > molecule, arm, lightning, tornado, felatio, flute, rape,
                    fetus,
                    > > > Iraq,
                    > > > > Congress, dictionary.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Most of the words we use from day to day, in fact, are merely
                    > > > > understood to mean what they do and almost no one questions
                    it.
                    > > Nor
                    > > > > should they. They simply describe what is.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > But there are also words that name only what we think they
                    mean-
                    > --
                    > > > and
                    > > > > can never name more; words that can never be denoted
                    > objectively:
                    > > > > freedom, justice, right, wrong, good, bad...truth...being and
                    > > > > nothingness. In fact, many of the words used to discuss human
                    > > moral
                    > > > > and political interaction, emotional and psychological
                    states,
                    > > > > identity, aesthetics, ontology, teleology etc. really are
                    just
                    > > > > squeaks for all intents and purposes. Yet these, alas, are
                    the
                    > > most
                    > > > > important words of all in venues like this one.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Right?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Biggie
                    > > >
                    > > >
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