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Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

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  • Yulian K. Gaard
    Eduard, relativistic positivistic Posetivism is a line of thinking where science and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
      Eduard,

      "relativistic positivistic"
      Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future' if they have enough information.

      Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others, here especially ment the place in history and society ...

      Thinking
      Yulian


      Respectfully submitted.


      " Magic is a way of life. "
    • Eduard Alf
      Yulian, i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
        Yulian,

        i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know
        that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
        offering here is that objects are really an isolated moment within a process
        ... that if you make a choice now, then you affect the time line ... so ones
        decisions have to be more than just what you see now ... i suppose that we
        already know that ... but it is not often put into words ... and is not
        applied to everything ....

        have fun ...

        eduard

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
        Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:40 PM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


        Eduard,

        "relativistic positivistic"
        Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and
        math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is
        determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule
        structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future'
        if they have enough information.

        Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others,
        here especially ment the place in history and society ...

        Thinking
        Yulian
      • Luke Lofland
        as monty python said Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour Yep. Time and stuff. Didn t Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn t I who
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
          as monty python said

          "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

          Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
          always mentioned relativity.

          Sarcastic me
          sweaters


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        • Eduard Alf
          Luke, you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a process
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
            Luke,

            you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not
            evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a
            process and includes both its past and its future, whatever that future may
            be ... it is Taoist ... i suppose i have not yet gotten the concept right
            myself, since i cant express it clearly ...

            eduard

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
            Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 1:29 AM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



            as monty python said

            "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

            Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
            always mentioned relativity.

            Sarcastic me
            sweaters
          • Yulian K. Gaard
            Eduard ... For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ... For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it s still a wooden coutch - as in made
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
              Eduard ...

              For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
              For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
              Only for humans would it make any meaning.

              In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case. The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but that.

              No sence
              Yulian

              Respectfully submitted.


              " Magic is a way of life. "
            • Eduard Alf
              Yulian, yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                Yulian,

                yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a
                bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                use to sit on ... however, what im getting at is that an awareness that it
                was once a tree ... im suggesting that this is more than awareness ... that
                the tree is part of the time line of the bench and is very real ... for
                example, somewhere in a forest somewhere there is an empty space which was
                the tree that you chopped down to make the bench ... that space is also a
                non-tree ... so if you were counting the forest you would have 9,999 trees
                and one non-tree ... so your bench continues to have a certain reality in
                its past ... im saying that objects are not static .. they are a moment in a
                process ... just as a car is also some ore in a mine somewhere ... and your
                morning cereal is also a crop in a field somewhere ...

                have fun ...

                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:28 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

                Eduard ...

                For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a
                wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their
                essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a
                coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in
                that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as
                existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its
                physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim
                that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you
                actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case.
                The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but
                that.

                No sence
                Yulian
              • Yulian K. Gaard
                So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ?? Respectfully submitted.
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                  So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                  Respectfully submitted.


                  " Magic is a way of life. "
                • Eduard Alf
                  Yulian, yes ... if you consider dirt as being the materials that come from the body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands is
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                    Yulian,

                    yes ... if you consider "dirt" as being the materials that come from the
                    body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands
                    is working on a means to make dead people into fertilizer ... sounds good to
                    me ...

                    eduard

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:31 PM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                    So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there
                    as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                    Respectfully submitted.


                    " Magic is a way of life. "
                  • Luke Lofland
                    eduard is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                      eduard

                      is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                      see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                      was, is and will be.

                      Sweaters
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                    • Eduard Alf
                      Luke, i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
                        Luke,

                        i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics
                        there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                        determine the location and speed of something ... so think of a line that is
                        of infinite length ... it is absolutely straight for essentially all of its
                        length, except for one location which represents the present ... at this
                        location you have a wave whose amplitude is distributed over a short
                        distance .. at the precise location the amplitude is high and then lessens
                        to either side ... it is like a little bulge in the line ... i see this as
                        the same as a photon of light which can be both a wave and a particle at the
                        same time ... so you as Luke are on your time line ... you exist in only one
                        location which is the present and you flow along the time line from the past
                        to the future ... now, the future is not fixed ... the choices that you make
                        in the present can change the direction of the line ...

                        that is what im getting at in saying the table is the present display on its
                        time line ... it does not exist in the past (to the left on the line) but we
                        are aware of where it was since the line leads to that empty space
                        (non-tree) in the forest ... and it does not exist in the future (to the
                        right on the line) ... the future or direction of the line is dependent upon
                        what is done today ... if we throw it in the fire, the direction is to
                        ashes, and if we turn it into a chair then the direction of the time line
                        will lead to that empty space amongst the living room furniture ...

                        have fun (but watch where you send your line) ...

                        eduard

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:57 AM
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                        eduard

                        is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                        see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                        was, is and will be.

                        Sweaters
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                      • Luke Lofland
                        i see i see. Here s a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they like physics): A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
                          i see i see.

                          Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                          like physics):
                          A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                          cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                          Yep, that's it.
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                        • Eduard Alf
                          Luke, nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ... so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 4, 2001
                            Luke,

                            nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ...
                            so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                            truthfully ... THE CATS DEAD ... i killed the cat ... you can inform your
                            friends that the story is over, unless they want to do it on TNN ...

                            have fun (but dont tell the cat) ...

                            eduard

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                            Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:47 AM
                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

                            i see i see.

                            Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                            like physics):
                            A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                            cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                            Yep, that's it.
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