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RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

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  • Eduard Alf
    Yulian, yep ... my own ... although i dont know what relativistic positivistic means ... think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
      Yulian,

      yep ... my own ... although i dont know what "relativistic positivistic"
      means ...

      think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line from
      start to finish ... then think of a fluctuation at some point in the string
      (say the middle) ... the string has only one dimension; its length ... the
      fluctuation or vibration adds other dimensions ... if just up and down, then
      it has two dimensions ... if up, down and back and forth, then it has three
      dimensions ... the location of the fluctuation can be seen as akin to time
      ... so the string or time line, changes into our four dimensional universe
      and the thing which is the fluctuation suddenly appears ... in the case of
      the table the fluctuation is in our present time, and it appears as a table
      ... in past time it may have been a fluctuation as a tree ...

      of course everything has a time line and these all cross in the present ...
      the time line for the wood of the table crosses with the time line for the
      bolts that attach the legs ...

      can one extend this idea to god ... in that god is also a fluctuation that
      appears in our time? ...

      have fun ... im going to take a nap ... thinking is exhausting ...

      eduard

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
      Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:25 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


      Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


      "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
      present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
      which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."
    • Yulian K. Gaard
      Eduard, relativistic positivistic Posetivism is a line of thinking where science and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
        Eduard,

        "relativistic positivistic"
        Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future' if they have enough information.

        Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others, here especially ment the place in history and society ...

        Thinking
        Yulian


        Respectfully submitted.


        " Magic is a way of life. "
      • Eduard Alf
        Yulian, i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
          Yulian,

          i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know
          that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
          offering here is that objects are really an isolated moment within a process
          ... that if you make a choice now, then you affect the time line ... so ones
          decisions have to be more than just what you see now ... i suppose that we
          already know that ... but it is not often put into words ... and is not
          applied to everything ....

          have fun ...

          eduard

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
          Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:40 PM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


          Eduard,

          "relativistic positivistic"
          Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and
          math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is
          determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule
          structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future'
          if they have enough information.

          Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others,
          here especially ment the place in history and society ...

          Thinking
          Yulian
        • Luke Lofland
          as monty python said Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour Yep. Time and stuff. Didn t Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn t I who
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
            as monty python said

            "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

            Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
            always mentioned relativity.

            Sarcastic me
            sweaters


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          • Eduard Alf
            Luke, you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a process
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
              Luke,

              you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not
              evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a
              process and includes both its past and its future, whatever that future may
              be ... it is Taoist ... i suppose i have not yet gotten the concept right
              myself, since i cant express it clearly ...

              eduard

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
              Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 1:29 AM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



              as monty python said

              "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

              Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
              always mentioned relativity.

              Sarcastic me
              sweaters
            • Yulian K. Gaard
              Eduard ... For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ... For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it s still a wooden coutch - as in made
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                Eduard ...

                For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case. The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but that.

                No sence
                Yulian

                Respectfully submitted.


                " Magic is a way of life. "
              • Eduard Alf
                Yulian, yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                  Yulian,

                  yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a
                  bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                  use to sit on ... however, what im getting at is that an awareness that it
                  was once a tree ... im suggesting that this is more than awareness ... that
                  the tree is part of the time line of the bench and is very real ... for
                  example, somewhere in a forest somewhere there is an empty space which was
                  the tree that you chopped down to make the bench ... that space is also a
                  non-tree ... so if you were counting the forest you would have 9,999 trees
                  and one non-tree ... so your bench continues to have a certain reality in
                  its past ... im saying that objects are not static .. they are a moment in a
                  process ... just as a car is also some ore in a mine somewhere ... and your
                  morning cereal is also a crop in a field somewhere ...

                  have fun ...

                  eduard

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:28 AM
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

                  Eduard ...

                  For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                  For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a
                  wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                  Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                  In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their
                  essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a
                  coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in
                  that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as
                  existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its
                  physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim
                  that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you
                  actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case.
                  The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but
                  that.

                  No sence
                  Yulian
                • Yulian K. Gaard
                  So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ?? Respectfully submitted.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                    So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                    Respectfully submitted.


                    " Magic is a way of life. "
                  • Eduard Alf
                    Yulian, yes ... if you consider dirt as being the materials that come from the body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands is
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                      Yulian,

                      yes ... if you consider "dirt" as being the materials that come from the
                      body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands
                      is working on a means to make dead people into fertilizer ... sounds good to
                      me ...

                      eduard

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:31 PM
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                      So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there
                      as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                      Respectfully submitted.


                      " Magic is a way of life. "
                    • Luke Lofland
                      eduard is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                        eduard

                        is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                        see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                        was, is and will be.

                        Sweaters
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                      • Eduard Alf
                        Luke, i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
                          Luke,

                          i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics
                          there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                          determine the location and speed of something ... so think of a line that is
                          of infinite length ... it is absolutely straight for essentially all of its
                          length, except for one location which represents the present ... at this
                          location you have a wave whose amplitude is distributed over a short
                          distance .. at the precise location the amplitude is high and then lessens
                          to either side ... it is like a little bulge in the line ... i see this as
                          the same as a photon of light which can be both a wave and a particle at the
                          same time ... so you as Luke are on your time line ... you exist in only one
                          location which is the present and you flow along the time line from the past
                          to the future ... now, the future is not fixed ... the choices that you make
                          in the present can change the direction of the line ...

                          that is what im getting at in saying the table is the present display on its
                          time line ... it does not exist in the past (to the left on the line) but we
                          are aware of where it was since the line leads to that empty space
                          (non-tree) in the forest ... and it does not exist in the future (to the
                          right on the line) ... the future or direction of the line is dependent upon
                          what is done today ... if we throw it in the fire, the direction is to
                          ashes, and if we turn it into a chair then the direction of the time line
                          will lead to that empty space amongst the living room furniture ...

                          have fun (but watch where you send your line) ...

                          eduard

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                          Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:57 AM
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                          eduard

                          is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                          see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                          was, is and will be.

                          Sweaters
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                        • Luke Lofland
                          i see i see. Here s a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they like physics): A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
                            i see i see.

                            Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                            like physics):
                            A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                            cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                            Yep, that's it.
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                          • Eduard Alf
                            Luke, nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ... so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 4, 2001
                              Luke,

                              nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ...
                              so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                              truthfully ... THE CATS DEAD ... i killed the cat ... you can inform your
                              friends that the story is over, unless they want to do it on TNN ...

                              have fun (but dont tell the cat) ...

                              eduard

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                              Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:47 AM
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

                              i see i see.

                              Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                              like physics):
                              A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                              cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                              Yep, that's it.
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