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Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

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  • Yulian K. Gaard
    Okey ... I assume it s you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ?? 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the present
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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      Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


      "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
      present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
      which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."


      Respectfully submitted.


      " Magic is a way of life. "
    • Eduard Alf
      Yulian, yep ... my own ... although i dont know what relativistic positivistic means ... think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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        Yulian,

        yep ... my own ... although i dont know what "relativistic positivistic"
        means ...

        think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line from
        start to finish ... then think of a fluctuation at some point in the string
        (say the middle) ... the string has only one dimension; its length ... the
        fluctuation or vibration adds other dimensions ... if just up and down, then
        it has two dimensions ... if up, down and back and forth, then it has three
        dimensions ... the location of the fluctuation can be seen as akin to time
        ... so the string or time line, changes into our four dimensional universe
        and the thing which is the fluctuation suddenly appears ... in the case of
        the table the fluctuation is in our present time, and it appears as a table
        ... in past time it may have been a fluctuation as a tree ...

        of course everything has a time line and these all cross in the present ...
        the time line for the wood of the table crosses with the time line for the
        bolts that attach the legs ...

        can one extend this idea to god ... in that god is also a fluctuation that
        appears in our time? ...

        have fun ... im going to take a nap ... thinking is exhausting ...

        eduard

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
        Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:25 PM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


        Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


        "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
        present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
        which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."
      • Yulian K. Gaard
        Eduard, relativistic positivistic Posetivism is a line of thinking where science and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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          Eduard,

          "relativistic positivistic"
          Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future' if they have enough information.

          Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others, here especially ment the place in history and society ...

          Thinking
          Yulian


          Respectfully submitted.


          " Magic is a way of life. "
        • Eduard Alf
          Yulian, i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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            Yulian,

            i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know
            that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
            offering here is that objects are really an isolated moment within a process
            ... that if you make a choice now, then you affect the time line ... so ones
            decisions have to be more than just what you see now ... i suppose that we
            already know that ... but it is not often put into words ... and is not
            applied to everything ....

            have fun ...

            eduard

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
            Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:40 PM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


            Eduard,

            "relativistic positivistic"
            Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and
            math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is
            determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule
            structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future'
            if they have enough information.

            Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others,
            here especially ment the place in history and society ...

            Thinking
            Yulian
          • Luke Lofland
            as monty python said Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour Yep. Time and stuff. Didn t Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn t I who
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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              as monty python said

              "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

              Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
              always mentioned relativity.

              Sarcastic me
              sweaters


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            • Eduard Alf
              Luke, you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a process
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                Luke,

                you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not
                evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a
                process and includes both its past and its future, whatever that future may
                be ... it is Taoist ... i suppose i have not yet gotten the concept right
                myself, since i cant express it clearly ...

                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 1:29 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                as monty python said

                "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                always mentioned relativity.

                Sarcastic me
                sweaters
              • Yulian K. Gaard
                Eduard ... For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ... For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it s still a wooden coutch - as in made
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                  Eduard ...

                  For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                  For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                  Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                  In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case. The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but that.

                  No sence
                  Yulian

                  Respectfully submitted.


                  " Magic is a way of life. "
                • Eduard Alf
                  Yulian, yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                    Yulian,

                    yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a
                    bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                    use to sit on ... however, what im getting at is that an awareness that it
                    was once a tree ... im suggesting that this is more than awareness ... that
                    the tree is part of the time line of the bench and is very real ... for
                    example, somewhere in a forest somewhere there is an empty space which was
                    the tree that you chopped down to make the bench ... that space is also a
                    non-tree ... so if you were counting the forest you would have 9,999 trees
                    and one non-tree ... so your bench continues to have a certain reality in
                    its past ... im saying that objects are not static .. they are a moment in a
                    process ... just as a car is also some ore in a mine somewhere ... and your
                    morning cereal is also a crop in a field somewhere ...

                    have fun ...

                    eduard

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:28 AM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

                    Eduard ...

                    For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                    For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a
                    wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                    Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                    In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their
                    essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a
                    coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in
                    that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as
                    existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its
                    physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim
                    that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you
                    actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case.
                    The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but
                    that.

                    No sence
                    Yulian
                  • Yulian K. Gaard
                    So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ?? Respectfully submitted.
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                      So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                      Respectfully submitted.


                      " Magic is a way of life. "
                    • Eduard Alf
                      Yulian, yes ... if you consider dirt as being the materials that come from the body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands is
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                        Yulian,

                        yes ... if you consider "dirt" as being the materials that come from the
                        body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands
                        is working on a means to make dead people into fertilizer ... sounds good to
                        me ...

                        eduard

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                        Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:31 PM
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                        So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there
                        as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                        Respectfully submitted.


                        " Magic is a way of life. "
                      • Luke Lofland
                        eduard is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                          eduard

                          is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                          see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                          was, is and will be.

                          Sweaters
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                        • Eduard Alf
                          Luke, i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
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                            Luke,

                            i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics
                            there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                            determine the location and speed of something ... so think of a line that is
                            of infinite length ... it is absolutely straight for essentially all of its
                            length, except for one location which represents the present ... at this
                            location you have a wave whose amplitude is distributed over a short
                            distance .. at the precise location the amplitude is high and then lessens
                            to either side ... it is like a little bulge in the line ... i see this as
                            the same as a photon of light which can be both a wave and a particle at the
                            same time ... so you as Luke are on your time line ... you exist in only one
                            location which is the present and you flow along the time line from the past
                            to the future ... now, the future is not fixed ... the choices that you make
                            in the present can change the direction of the line ...

                            that is what im getting at in saying the table is the present display on its
                            time line ... it does not exist in the past (to the left on the line) but we
                            are aware of where it was since the line leads to that empty space
                            (non-tree) in the forest ... and it does not exist in the future (to the
                            right on the line) ... the future or direction of the line is dependent upon
                            what is done today ... if we throw it in the fire, the direction is to
                            ashes, and if we turn it into a chair then the direction of the time line
                            will lead to that empty space amongst the living room furniture ...

                            have fun (but watch where you send your line) ...

                            eduard

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                            Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:57 AM
                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                            eduard

                            is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                            see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                            was, is and will be.

                            Sweaters
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                          • Luke Lofland
                            i see i see. Here s a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they like physics): A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
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                              i see i see.

                              Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                              like physics):
                              A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                              cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                              Yep, that's it.
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                            • Eduard Alf
                              Luke, nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ... so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 4, 2001
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                                Luke,

                                nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ...
                                so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                truthfully ... THE CATS DEAD ... i killed the cat ... you can inform your
                                friends that the story is over, unless they want to do it on TNN ...

                                have fun (but dont tell the cat) ...

                                eduard

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:47 AM
                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

                                i see i see.

                                Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                like physics):
                                A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                Yep, that's it.
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