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RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

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  • Eduard Alf
    Yulian et folks, sorry to hear you are bored ... the following is answer no. 4 which may be of interest ... 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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      Yulian et folks,

      sorry to hear you are bored ... the following is answer no. 4 which may be
      of interest ...

      4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
      present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
      which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ...

      have fun ...

      eduard



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
      Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:14 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


      But I'm bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was
      busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=)
    • Yulian K. Gaard
      Okey ... I assume it s you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ?? 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the present
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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        Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


        "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
        present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
        which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."


        Respectfully submitted.


        " Magic is a way of life. "
      • Eduard Alf
        Yulian, yep ... my own ... although i dont know what relativistic positivistic means ... think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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          Yulian,

          yep ... my own ... although i dont know what "relativistic positivistic"
          means ...

          think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line from
          start to finish ... then think of a fluctuation at some point in the string
          (say the middle) ... the string has only one dimension; its length ... the
          fluctuation or vibration adds other dimensions ... if just up and down, then
          it has two dimensions ... if up, down and back and forth, then it has three
          dimensions ... the location of the fluctuation can be seen as akin to time
          ... so the string or time line, changes into our four dimensional universe
          and the thing which is the fluctuation suddenly appears ... in the case of
          the table the fluctuation is in our present time, and it appears as a table
          ... in past time it may have been a fluctuation as a tree ...

          of course everything has a time line and these all cross in the present ...
          the time line for the wood of the table crosses with the time line for the
          bolts that attach the legs ...

          can one extend this idea to god ... in that god is also a fluctuation that
          appears in our time? ...

          have fun ... im going to take a nap ... thinking is exhausting ...

          eduard

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
          Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:25 PM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


          Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


          "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
          present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
          which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."
        • Yulian K. Gaard
          Eduard, relativistic positivistic Posetivism is a line of thinking where science and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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            Eduard,

            "relativistic positivistic"
            Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future' if they have enough information.

            Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others, here especially ment the place in history and society ...

            Thinking
            Yulian


            Respectfully submitted.


            " Magic is a way of life. "
          • Eduard Alf
            Yulian, i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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              Yulian,

              i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know
              that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
              offering here is that objects are really an isolated moment within a process
              ... that if you make a choice now, then you affect the time line ... so ones
              decisions have to be more than just what you see now ... i suppose that we
              already know that ... but it is not often put into words ... and is not
              applied to everything ....

              have fun ...

              eduard

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
              Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:40 PM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


              Eduard,

              "relativistic positivistic"
              Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and
              math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is
              determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule
              structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future'
              if they have enough information.

              Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others,
              here especially ment the place in history and society ...

              Thinking
              Yulian
            • Luke Lofland
              as monty python said Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour Yep. Time and stuff. Didn t Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn t I who
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                as monty python said

                "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                always mentioned relativity.

                Sarcastic me
                sweaters


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              • Eduard Alf
                Luke, you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a process
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                  Luke,

                  you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not
                  evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a
                  process and includes both its past and its future, whatever that future may
                  be ... it is Taoist ... i suppose i have not yet gotten the concept right
                  myself, since i cant express it clearly ...

                  eduard

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 1:29 AM
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                  as monty python said

                  "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                  Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                  always mentioned relativity.

                  Sarcastic me
                  sweaters
                • Yulian K. Gaard
                  Eduard ... For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ... For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it s still a wooden coutch - as in made
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                    Eduard ...

                    For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                    For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                    Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                    In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case. The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but that.

                    No sence
                    Yulian

                    Respectfully submitted.


                    " Magic is a way of life. "
                  • Eduard Alf
                    Yulian, yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                      Yulian,

                      yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a
                      bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                      use to sit on ... however, what im getting at is that an awareness that it
                      was once a tree ... im suggesting that this is more than awareness ... that
                      the tree is part of the time line of the bench and is very real ... for
                      example, somewhere in a forest somewhere there is an empty space which was
                      the tree that you chopped down to make the bench ... that space is also a
                      non-tree ... so if you were counting the forest you would have 9,999 trees
                      and one non-tree ... so your bench continues to have a certain reality in
                      its past ... im saying that objects are not static .. they are a moment in a
                      process ... just as a car is also some ore in a mine somewhere ... and your
                      morning cereal is also a crop in a field somewhere ...

                      have fun ...

                      eduard

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:28 AM
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

                      Eduard ...

                      For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                      For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a
                      wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                      Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                      In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their
                      essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a
                      coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in
                      that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as
                      existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its
                      physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim
                      that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you
                      actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case.
                      The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but
                      that.

                      No sence
                      Yulian
                    • Yulian K. Gaard
                      So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ?? Respectfully submitted.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                        So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                        Respectfully submitted.


                        " Magic is a way of life. "
                      • Eduard Alf
                        Yulian, yes ... if you consider dirt as being the materials that come from the body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands is
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                          Yulian,

                          yes ... if you consider "dirt" as being the materials that come from the
                          body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands
                          is working on a means to make dead people into fertilizer ... sounds good to
                          me ...

                          eduard

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                          Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:31 PM
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                          So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there
                          as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                          Respectfully submitted.


                          " Magic is a way of life. "
                        • Luke Lofland
                          eduard is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                            eduard

                            is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                            see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                            was, is and will be.

                            Sweaters
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                          • Eduard Alf
                            Luke, i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
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                              Luke,

                              i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics
                              there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                              determine the location and speed of something ... so think of a line that is
                              of infinite length ... it is absolutely straight for essentially all of its
                              length, except for one location which represents the present ... at this
                              location you have a wave whose amplitude is distributed over a short
                              distance .. at the precise location the amplitude is high and then lessens
                              to either side ... it is like a little bulge in the line ... i see this as
                              the same as a photon of light which can be both a wave and a particle at the
                              same time ... so you as Luke are on your time line ... you exist in only one
                              location which is the present and you flow along the time line from the past
                              to the future ... now, the future is not fixed ... the choices that you make
                              in the present can change the direction of the line ...

                              that is what im getting at in saying the table is the present display on its
                              time line ... it does not exist in the past (to the left on the line) but we
                              are aware of where it was since the line leads to that empty space
                              (non-tree) in the forest ... and it does not exist in the future (to the
                              right on the line) ... the future or direction of the line is dependent upon
                              what is done today ... if we throw it in the fire, the direction is to
                              ashes, and if we turn it into a chair then the direction of the time line
                              will lead to that empty space amongst the living room furniture ...

                              have fun (but watch where you send your line) ...

                              eduard

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                              Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:57 AM
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                              eduard

                              is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                              see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                              was, is and will be.

                              Sweaters
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                            • Luke Lofland
                              i see i see. Here s a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they like physics): A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
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                                i see i see.

                                Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                like physics):
                                A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                Yep, that's it.
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                              • Eduard Alf
                                Luke, nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ... so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 4, 2001
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                                  Luke,

                                  nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ...
                                  so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                  truthfully ... THE CATS DEAD ... i killed the cat ... you can inform your
                                  friends that the story is over, unless they want to do it on TNN ...

                                  have fun (but dont tell the cat) ...

                                  eduard

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                  Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:47 AM
                                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

                                  i see i see.

                                  Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                  like physics):
                                  A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                  cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                  Yep, that's it.
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