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Re: [existlist] From Perfection to Freedom

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  • eduard at home
    Jo, I think the key phrase is ... to please ourselves . I was looking for the motive that fuels our striving for perfection. What I was getting hooked up on
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Jo,

      I think the key phrase is ... "to please ourselves".

      I was looking for the motive that fuels our striving for
      perfection. What I was getting hooked up on was the thought
      that this had to be somehow related to the result on others.
      If I act with perfection then it is the improvement that I
      cause in society. Although this is laudable, it is hard to
      make concrete. I occurs to me that everything that we do is
      for self-satisfaction. The same would occur in the presence
      of a fanaticized god. We do act because of the neural
      satisfaction to be obtained. That seems obvious, yet is
      hard to identify.

      So although the list might contain things like, "improving
      relationships", the words should be in relation to the self.

      eduard

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mary Jo Malo" <alcyon11@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 12:06 AM
      Subject: [existlist] From Perfection to Freedom


      > I'd place relationships with others at the top of the
      list -
      > improving existing relationships, cultivating new
      friendships (if
      > desired). Learning to think clearly and improving
      communication
      > skills are desirable. In the absence of a god to please
      with our
      > perfection, we can learn to please ourselves and others,
      with
      > discretion. These things are, of course, a choice. The art
      of self-
      > improvement, indeed the art self creating, is an optional
      path. The
      > motive might be to simply enjoy life in a manner which is
      not
      > threatening to others but liberated from social and
      intellectual
      > pressures. Freedom is a better goal I think. Freedom from
      being
      > perfect. Free to be human, however you define it.
      Rambling, I know...
      >
      > Jo
    • Lorna Landry
      Eduard, Can perfection (although in my opinion unattainable for all of us) be an end in itself? Do we need a motive for perfection outside the desire to be
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 2, 2003
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        Eduard,

        Can perfection (although in my opinion unattainable for all of us) be an end in itself? Do we need a motive for perfection outside the desire to be better, more than what we are? Perfection, and the futile attempt to attain it, is an end itself for us humans. Curious how we all strive to attain that which is ultimately unattainable. Cruel world!

        Lorna



        eduard at home <yeoman@...> wrote: hi DrQ,

        Yes, we are all doing the same things. But it's not
        striving for perfection as such which is the problem.
        Rather, it is to identify the purpose of that perfection.
        What do we see as the end result of our existence which we
        would like to see?? Everyone strives for perfection, but
        what is the motive??

        Sorry, I am not asking this correctly ... or at least I
        don't think so. Perhaps this is one of those issues that
        depends greatly upon first formulating the question ....

        eduard

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "drQ"
        To:
        Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 5:20 PM
        Subject: Re: [existlist] the end of striving


        > You mean all of you out there are striving for perfection
        like me!? and I thought it was a problem of only Me and that
        it's a sort of self-defeating behavior. Isn't it that not?
        Kind of being harsh on oneself.
        > As to end of this striving!? It's endless or rather ends
        with one's end. Maybe hastens one's end.....



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      • Lorna Landry
        the object of our perfection can be none other than ourselves as better than we now are....an imaginary, fantastical image of ourselves in a better light.
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 2, 2003
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          the object of our perfection can be none other than ourselves as better than we now are....an imaginary, fantastical image of ourselves in a better light.



          eduard at home <yeoman@...> wrote:
          But that still leaves the question of ... why. What is the
          objective of our perfection. In a religious context, this
          would be to reach the God-head. But in the absence of God,
          what is the motive??

          eduard

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Mary Jo Malo"
          To:
          Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 11:11 PM
          Subject: [existlist] Striving for Perfection


          > eduard,
          >
          > Here's an article that's related to self-reflection which
          seems to be
          > an attribute of striving for "perfection". An excerpt:
          >
          > "Differences in levels of self-focused attention deeply
          affect our
          > behavior. For example, past studies suggest that if you
          are highly
          > self-aware you will know yourself better than less
          self-aware people,
          > engage more effectively in self-regulation (i.e.,
          monitoring and
          > modifying your behavior), feel emotions more intensely,
          behave more
          > consistently with your attitudes, conform less to social
          pressure,
          > self-disclose more in intimate relationships, and react
          more strongly
          > to social rejection."
          >
          >
          >
          > Jo



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        • eduard at home
          Lorna, Wouldn t that be the idea behind Existentialist absurdity?? eduard ... From: Lorna Landry To:
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 2, 2003
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            Lorna,

            Wouldn't that be the idea behind Existentialist absurdity??

            eduard

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Lorna Landry" <lornalandry@...>
            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:58 AM
            Subject: Re: [existlist] the end of striving


            > Eduard,
            >
            > Can perfection (although in my opinion unattainable for
            all of us) be an end in itself? Do we need a motive for
            perfection outside the desire to be better, more than what
            we are? Perfection, and the futile attempt to attain it, is
            an end itself for us humans. Curious how we all strive to
            attain that which is ultimately unattainable. Cruel world!
            >
            > Lorna
          • eduard at home
            I think the object of our striving for perfection is the neurological/emotional high we get from the sensation of achieving some perfection. It would replace
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 2, 2003
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              I think the object of our striving for perfection is the
              neurological/emotional high we get from the sensation of
              achieving some perfection. It would replace that sort of
              God-high that we might envisage as the end result of some
              spiritual quest.

              I was thinking that all of this God stuff is actually a
              device by which humans have found they can play on their
              emotions. I remember seeing one of those evangelistic
              programs on TV where the audience is enthralled with the
              moment and rocking back and forth with their hands in the
              air. All that they are doing is producing an emotional
              transient. Like a crack demon anticipating the "rush".

              So if they can do it, then why not the Existentialist in
              savouring the thought of the future perfection. I certainly
              think of it when considering myself with perhaps 20 less
              pounds. Perhaps flexing my muscles on Wreck Beach.

              eduard

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Lorna Landry" <lornalandry@...>
              To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:00 AM
              Subject: Re: [existlist] Striving for Perfection


              >
              > the object of our perfection can be none other than
              ourselves as better than we now are....an imaginary,
              fantastical image of ourselves in a better light.
              >
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