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RE: [existlist] answer no. 3

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  • Eduard Alf
    Bill, actually the bookdock keeps me on my toes ... i think we would not have fun without him .... eduard ... From: William Harris [mailto:bhvwd@netins.net]
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
      Bill,

      actually the bookdock keeps me on my toes ... i think we would not have fun
      without him ....

      eduard

      -----Original Message-----
      From: William Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
      Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:47 AM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


      Eduard, In for a penny. In for a pound. Spin twist our mind. Round and
      round.

      Since bookdoc does not read my postings , Iwill write to you about him and
      we will be safe. I think he may be something new, an absurdist. . His
      nihilism is so profound as to negate the very footings of western thought.
      You and I, because of our scientific education, naturally trust our
      empirical
      pillings, he does not, he discounts Decartes and therefore Husserel. He has
      that deep spark of distrust that marked the early rebels in the exist
      theatre. I could not understand how by pure thuoght they could fortell all
      we
      have found out through science. How dare they kill god before us! Now our
      discussion of the uncertainity principle makes me rethink many things. Bill
    • Eduard Alf
      Yulian, wait for answer no. 4 ... im working on that ... have fun ... eduard ... From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@vip.cybercity.dk] Sent: Friday, June 01,
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
        Yulian,

        wait for answer no. 4 ... im working on that ...

        have fun ...

        eduard

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
        Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:56 AM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] answer no. 3



        *points at williams yelling; "Positivist ! Burn the 'vist !!!"*

        Okey more constructive ...
        Noone have ever disprooven god.
      • Eduard Alf
        hey folks, isnt this getting a bit off the subject ... eduard ... From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@vip.cybercity.dk] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:13 AM
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
          hey folks,

          isnt this getting a bit off the subject ...

          eduard

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
          Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:13 AM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


          Noone have killed god neither.
          Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and
          in that he defined the concept of god logically and found that he couldent
          wich was his "killing".


          Respectfully submitted.


          " Magic is a way of life. "
        • Yulian K. Gaard
          But I m bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=) Respectfully
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
            But I'm bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=)


            Respectfully submitted.


            " Magic is a way of life. "
          • Eduard Alf
            Yulian et folks, sorry to hear you are bored ... the following is answer no. 4 which may be of interest ... 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
              Yulian et folks,

              sorry to hear you are bored ... the following is answer no. 4 which may be
              of interest ...

              4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
              present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
              which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ...

              have fun ...

              eduard



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
              Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:14 PM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


              But I'm bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was
              busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=)
            • Yulian K. Gaard
              Okey ... I assume it s you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ?? 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the present
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
                Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


                "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
                present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
                which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."


                Respectfully submitted.


                " Magic is a way of life. "
              • Eduard Alf
                Yulian, yep ... my own ... although i dont know what relativistic positivistic means ... think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
                  Yulian,

                  yep ... my own ... although i dont know what "relativistic positivistic"
                  means ...

                  think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line from
                  start to finish ... then think of a fluctuation at some point in the string
                  (say the middle) ... the string has only one dimension; its length ... the
                  fluctuation or vibration adds other dimensions ... if just up and down, then
                  it has two dimensions ... if up, down and back and forth, then it has three
                  dimensions ... the location of the fluctuation can be seen as akin to time
                  ... so the string or time line, changes into our four dimensional universe
                  and the thing which is the fluctuation suddenly appears ... in the case of
                  the table the fluctuation is in our present time, and it appears as a table
                  ... in past time it may have been a fluctuation as a tree ...

                  of course everything has a time line and these all cross in the present ...
                  the time line for the wood of the table crosses with the time line for the
                  bolts that attach the legs ...

                  can one extend this idea to god ... in that god is also a fluctuation that
                  appears in our time? ...

                  have fun ... im going to take a nap ... thinking is exhausting ...

                  eduard

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                  Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:25 PM
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                  Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


                  "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
                  present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
                  which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."
                • Yulian K. Gaard
                  Eduard, relativistic positivistic Posetivism is a line of thinking where science and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
                    Eduard,

                    "relativistic positivistic"
                    Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future' if they have enough information.

                    Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others, here especially ment the place in history and society ...

                    Thinking
                    Yulian


                    Respectfully submitted.


                    " Magic is a way of life. "
                  • Eduard Alf
                    Yulian, i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
                      Yulian,

                      i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know
                      that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
                      offering here is that objects are really an isolated moment within a process
                      ... that if you make a choice now, then you affect the time line ... so ones
                      decisions have to be more than just what you see now ... i suppose that we
                      already know that ... but it is not often put into words ... and is not
                      applied to everything ....

                      have fun ...

                      eduard

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                      Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:40 PM
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                      Eduard,

                      "relativistic positivistic"
                      Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and
                      math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is
                      determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule
                      structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future'
                      if they have enough information.

                      Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others,
                      here especially ment the place in history and society ...

                      Thinking
                      Yulian
                    • Luke Lofland
                      as monty python said Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour Yep. Time and stuff. Didn t Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn t I who
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
                        as monty python said

                        "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                        Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                        always mentioned relativity.

                        Sarcastic me
                        sweaters


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                      • Eduard Alf
                        Luke, you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a process
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                          Luke,

                          you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not
                          evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a
                          process and includes both its past and its future, whatever that future may
                          be ... it is Taoist ... i suppose i have not yet gotten the concept right
                          myself, since i cant express it clearly ...

                          eduard

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                          Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 1:29 AM
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                          as monty python said

                          "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                          Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                          always mentioned relativity.

                          Sarcastic me
                          sweaters
                        • Yulian K. Gaard
                          Eduard ... For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ... For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it s still a wooden coutch - as in made
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                            Eduard ...

                            For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                            For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                            Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                            In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case. The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but that.

                            No sence
                            Yulian

                            Respectfully submitted.


                            " Magic is a way of life. "
                          • Eduard Alf
                            Yulian, yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                              Yulian,

                              yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a
                              bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                              use to sit on ... however, what im getting at is that an awareness that it
                              was once a tree ... im suggesting that this is more than awareness ... that
                              the tree is part of the time line of the bench and is very real ... for
                              example, somewhere in a forest somewhere there is an empty space which was
                              the tree that you chopped down to make the bench ... that space is also a
                              non-tree ... so if you were counting the forest you would have 9,999 trees
                              and one non-tree ... so your bench continues to have a certain reality in
                              its past ... im saying that objects are not static .. they are a moment in a
                              process ... just as a car is also some ore in a mine somewhere ... and your
                              morning cereal is also a crop in a field somewhere ...

                              have fun ...

                              eduard

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                              Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:28 AM
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

                              Eduard ...

                              For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                              For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a
                              wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                              Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                              In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their
                              essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a
                              coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in
                              that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as
                              existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its
                              physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim
                              that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you
                              actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case.
                              The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but
                              that.

                              No sence
                              Yulian
                            • Yulian K. Gaard
                              So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ?? Respectfully submitted.
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                                So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                                Respectfully submitted.


                                " Magic is a way of life. "
                              • Eduard Alf
                                Yulian, yes ... if you consider dirt as being the materials that come from the body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands is
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                                  Yulian,

                                  yes ... if you consider "dirt" as being the materials that come from the
                                  body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands
                                  is working on a means to make dead people into fertilizer ... sounds good to
                                  me ...

                                  eduard

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                                  Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:31 PM
                                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                                  So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there
                                  as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                                  Respectfully submitted.


                                  " Magic is a way of life. "
                                • Luke Lofland
                                  eduard is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
                                    eduard

                                    is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                                    see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                    was, is and will be.

                                    Sweaters
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                                  • Eduard Alf
                                    Luke, i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
                                      Luke,

                                      i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics
                                      there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                                      determine the location and speed of something ... so think of a line that is
                                      of infinite length ... it is absolutely straight for essentially all of its
                                      length, except for one location which represents the present ... at this
                                      location you have a wave whose amplitude is distributed over a short
                                      distance .. at the precise location the amplitude is high and then lessens
                                      to either side ... it is like a little bulge in the line ... i see this as
                                      the same as a photon of light which can be both a wave and a particle at the
                                      same time ... so you as Luke are on your time line ... you exist in only one
                                      location which is the present and you flow along the time line from the past
                                      to the future ... now, the future is not fixed ... the choices that you make
                                      in the present can change the direction of the line ...

                                      that is what im getting at in saying the table is the present display on its
                                      time line ... it does not exist in the past (to the left on the line) but we
                                      are aware of where it was since the line leads to that empty space
                                      (non-tree) in the forest ... and it does not exist in the future (to the
                                      right on the line) ... the future or direction of the line is dependent upon
                                      what is done today ... if we throw it in the fire, the direction is to
                                      ashes, and if we turn it into a chair then the direction of the time line
                                      will lead to that empty space amongst the living room furniture ...

                                      have fun (but watch where you send your line) ...

                                      eduard

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                      Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:57 AM
                                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                                      eduard

                                      is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                                      see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                      was, is and will be.

                                      Sweaters
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                                    • Luke Lofland
                                      i see i see. Here s a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they like physics): A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
                                        i see i see.

                                        Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                        like physics):
                                        A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                        cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                        Yep, that's it.
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                                      • Eduard Alf
                                        Luke, nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ... so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 4, 2001
                                          Luke,

                                          nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ...
                                          so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                          truthfully ... THE CATS DEAD ... i killed the cat ... you can inform your
                                          friends that the story is over, unless they want to do it on TNN ...

                                          have fun (but dont tell the cat) ...

                                          eduard

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                          Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:47 AM
                                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

                                          i see i see.

                                          Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                          like physics):
                                          A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                          cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                          Yep, that's it.
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