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Re: [existlist] answer no. 3

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  • William Harris
    Yulian, Not disprove, Kill! Bill
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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      Yulian, Not disprove, Kill! Bill

      "Yulian K. Gaard" wrote:

      > *points at williams yelling; "Positivist ! Burn the 'vist !!!"*
      >
      > Okey more constructive ...
      > Noone have ever disprooven god.
      >
      > Respectfully submitted.
      >
      > " Magic is a way of life. "
      >
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    • Yulian K. Gaard
      Noone have killed god neither. Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and in that he defined the concept of god logically and
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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        Noone have killed god neither.
        Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and in that he defined the concept of god logically and found that he couldent wich was his "killing".


        Respectfully submitted.


        " Magic is a way of life. "
      • William Harris
        Yulian, Aslong as you are happy, Bill
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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          Yulian, Aslong as you are happy, Bill

          "Yulian K. Gaard" wrote:

          > Noone have killed god neither.
          > Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and in that he defined the concept of god logically and found that he couldent wich was his "killing".
          >
          > Respectfully submitted.
          >
          > " Magic is a way of life. "
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
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        • Eduard Alf
          Bill, actually the bookdock keeps me on my toes ... i think we would not have fun without him .... eduard ... From: William Harris [mailto:bhvwd@netins.net]
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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            Bill,

            actually the bookdock keeps me on my toes ... i think we would not have fun
            without him ....

            eduard

            -----Original Message-----
            From: William Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
            Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:47 AM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


            Eduard, In for a penny. In for a pound. Spin twist our mind. Round and
            round.

            Since bookdoc does not read my postings , Iwill write to you about him and
            we will be safe. I think he may be something new, an absurdist. . His
            nihilism is so profound as to negate the very footings of western thought.
            You and I, because of our scientific education, naturally trust our
            empirical
            pillings, he does not, he discounts Decartes and therefore Husserel. He has
            that deep spark of distrust that marked the early rebels in the exist
            theatre. I could not understand how by pure thuoght they could fortell all
            we
            have found out through science. How dare they kill god before us! Now our
            discussion of the uncertainity principle makes me rethink many things. Bill
          • Eduard Alf
            Yulian, wait for answer no. 4 ... im working on that ... have fun ... eduard ... From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@vip.cybercity.dk] Sent: Friday, June 01,
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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              Yulian,

              wait for answer no. 4 ... im working on that ...

              have fun ...

              eduard

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
              Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:56 AM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [existlist] answer no. 3



              *points at williams yelling; "Positivist ! Burn the 'vist !!!"*

              Okey more constructive ...
              Noone have ever disprooven god.
            • Eduard Alf
              hey folks, isnt this getting a bit off the subject ... eduard ... From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@vip.cybercity.dk] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:13 AM
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                hey folks,

                isnt this getting a bit off the subject ...

                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:13 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


                Noone have killed god neither.
                Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and
                in that he defined the concept of god logically and found that he couldent
                wich was his "killing".


                Respectfully submitted.


                " Magic is a way of life. "
              • Yulian K. Gaard
                But I m bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=) Respectfully
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                  But I'm bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=)


                  Respectfully submitted.


                  " Magic is a way of life. "
                • Eduard Alf
                  Yulian et folks, sorry to hear you are bored ... the following is answer no. 4 which may be of interest ... 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                    Yulian et folks,

                    sorry to hear you are bored ... the following is answer no. 4 which may be
                    of interest ...

                    4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
                    present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
                    which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ...

                    have fun ...

                    eduard



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                    Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:14 PM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


                    But I'm bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was
                    busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=)
                  • Yulian K. Gaard
                    Okey ... I assume it s you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ?? 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the present
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                      Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


                      "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
                      present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
                      which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."


                      Respectfully submitted.


                      " Magic is a way of life. "
                    • Eduard Alf
                      Yulian, yep ... my own ... although i dont know what relativistic positivistic means ... think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                        Yulian,

                        yep ... my own ... although i dont know what "relativistic positivistic"
                        means ...

                        think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line from
                        start to finish ... then think of a fluctuation at some point in the string
                        (say the middle) ... the string has only one dimension; its length ... the
                        fluctuation or vibration adds other dimensions ... if just up and down, then
                        it has two dimensions ... if up, down and back and forth, then it has three
                        dimensions ... the location of the fluctuation can be seen as akin to time
                        ... so the string or time line, changes into our four dimensional universe
                        and the thing which is the fluctuation suddenly appears ... in the case of
                        the table the fluctuation is in our present time, and it appears as a table
                        ... in past time it may have been a fluctuation as a tree ...

                        of course everything has a time line and these all cross in the present ...
                        the time line for the wood of the table crosses with the time line for the
                        bolts that attach the legs ...

                        can one extend this idea to god ... in that god is also a fluctuation that
                        appears in our time? ...

                        have fun ... im going to take a nap ... thinking is exhausting ...

                        eduard

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                        Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:25 PM
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                        Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


                        "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
                        present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
                        which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."
                      • Yulian K. Gaard
                        Eduard, relativistic positivistic Posetivism is a line of thinking where science and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                          Eduard,

                          "relativistic positivistic"
                          Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future' if they have enough information.

                          Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others, here especially ment the place in history and society ...

                          Thinking
                          Yulian


                          Respectfully submitted.


                          " Magic is a way of life. "
                        • Eduard Alf
                          Yulian, i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                            Yulian,

                            i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know
                            that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
                            offering here is that objects are really an isolated moment within a process
                            ... that if you make a choice now, then you affect the time line ... so ones
                            decisions have to be more than just what you see now ... i suppose that we
                            already know that ... but it is not often put into words ... and is not
                            applied to everything ....

                            have fun ...

                            eduard

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                            Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:40 PM
                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                            Eduard,

                            "relativistic positivistic"
                            Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and
                            math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is
                            determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule
                            structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future'
                            if they have enough information.

                            Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others,
                            here especially ment the place in history and society ...

                            Thinking
                            Yulian
                          • Luke Lofland
                            as monty python said Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour Yep. Time and stuff. Didn t Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn t I who
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                              as monty python said

                              "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                              Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                              always mentioned relativity.

                              Sarcastic me
                              sweaters


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                            • Eduard Alf
                              Luke, you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a process
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                Luke,

                                you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not
                                evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a
                                process and includes both its past and its future, whatever that future may
                                be ... it is Taoist ... i suppose i have not yet gotten the concept right
                                myself, since i cant express it clearly ...

                                eduard

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 1:29 AM
                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                                as monty python said

                                "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                                Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                                always mentioned relativity.

                                Sarcastic me
                                sweaters
                              • Yulian K. Gaard
                                Eduard ... For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ... For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it s still a wooden coutch - as in made
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                  Eduard ...

                                  For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                                  For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                                  Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                                  In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case. The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but that.

                                  No sence
                                  Yulian

                                  Respectfully submitted.


                                  " Magic is a way of life. "
                                • Eduard Alf
                                  Yulian, yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                    Yulian,

                                    yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a
                                    bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                                    use to sit on ... however, what im getting at is that an awareness that it
                                    was once a tree ... im suggesting that this is more than awareness ... that
                                    the tree is part of the time line of the bench and is very real ... for
                                    example, somewhere in a forest somewhere there is an empty space which was
                                    the tree that you chopped down to make the bench ... that space is also a
                                    non-tree ... so if you were counting the forest you would have 9,999 trees
                                    and one non-tree ... so your bench continues to have a certain reality in
                                    its past ... im saying that objects are not static .. they are a moment in a
                                    process ... just as a car is also some ore in a mine somewhere ... and your
                                    morning cereal is also a crop in a field somewhere ...

                                    have fun ...

                                    eduard

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                                    Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:28 AM
                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

                                    Eduard ...

                                    For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                                    For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a
                                    wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                                    Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                                    In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their
                                    essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a
                                    coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in
                                    that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as
                                    existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its
                                    physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim
                                    that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you
                                    actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case.
                                    The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but
                                    that.

                                    No sence
                                    Yulian
                                  • Yulian K. Gaard
                                    So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ?? Respectfully submitted.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                      So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                                      Respectfully submitted.


                                      " Magic is a way of life. "
                                    • Eduard Alf
                                      Yulian, yes ... if you consider dirt as being the materials that come from the body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands is
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                        Yulian,

                                        yes ... if you consider "dirt" as being the materials that come from the
                                        body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands
                                        is working on a means to make dead people into fertilizer ... sounds good to
                                        me ...

                                        eduard

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                                        Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:31 PM
                                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                                        So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there
                                        as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                                        Respectfully submitted.


                                        " Magic is a way of life. "
                                      • Luke Lofland
                                        eduard is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                          eduard

                                          is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                                          see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                          was, is and will be.

                                          Sweaters
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                                        • Eduard Alf
                                          Luke, i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
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                                            Luke,

                                            i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics
                                            there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                                            determine the location and speed of something ... so think of a line that is
                                            of infinite length ... it is absolutely straight for essentially all of its
                                            length, except for one location which represents the present ... at this
                                            location you have a wave whose amplitude is distributed over a short
                                            distance .. at the precise location the amplitude is high and then lessens
                                            to either side ... it is like a little bulge in the line ... i see this as
                                            the same as a photon of light which can be both a wave and a particle at the
                                            same time ... so you as Luke are on your time line ... you exist in only one
                                            location which is the present and you flow along the time line from the past
                                            to the future ... now, the future is not fixed ... the choices that you make
                                            in the present can change the direction of the line ...

                                            that is what im getting at in saying the table is the present display on its
                                            time line ... it does not exist in the past (to the left on the line) but we
                                            are aware of where it was since the line leads to that empty space
                                            (non-tree) in the forest ... and it does not exist in the future (to the
                                            right on the line) ... the future or direction of the line is dependent upon
                                            what is done today ... if we throw it in the fire, the direction is to
                                            ashes, and if we turn it into a chair then the direction of the time line
                                            will lead to that empty space amongst the living room furniture ...

                                            have fun (but watch where you send your line) ...

                                            eduard

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                            Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:57 AM
                                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                                            eduard

                                            is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                                            see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                            was, is and will be.

                                            Sweaters
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                                          • Luke Lofland
                                            i see i see. Here s a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they like physics): A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
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                                              i see i see.

                                              Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                              like physics):
                                              A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                              cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                              Yep, that's it.
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                                            • Eduard Alf
                                              Luke, nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ... so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 4, 2001
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                                                Luke,

                                                nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ...
                                                so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                                truthfully ... THE CATS DEAD ... i killed the cat ... you can inform your
                                                friends that the story is over, unless they want to do it on TNN ...

                                                have fun (but dont tell the cat) ...

                                                eduard

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                                Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:47 AM
                                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

                                                i see i see.

                                                Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                                like physics):
                                                A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                                cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                                Yep, that's it.
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