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Re: [existlist] answer no. 3

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  • William Harris
    Eduard, In for a penny. In for a pound. Spin twist our mind. Round and round. Since bookdoc does not read my postings , Iwill write to you about him and we
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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      Eduard, In for a penny. In for a pound. Spin twist our mind. Round and round.

      Since bookdoc does not read my postings , Iwill write to you about him and
      we will be safe. I think he may be something new, an absurdist. . His
      nihilism is so profound as to negate the very footings of western thought.
      You and I, because of our scientific education, naturally trust our empirical
      pillings, he does not, he discounts Decartes and therefore Husserel. He has
      that deep spark of distrust that marked the early rebels in the exist
      theatre. I could not understand how by pure thuoght they could fortell all we
      have found out through science. How dare they kill god before us! Now our
      discussion of the uncertainity principle makes me rethink many things. Bill
      Eduard Alf wrote:

      > folks,
      >
      > answer no. 3 is that once we achieve enlightenment, our role is to help
      > others to obtain order out of their chaos ...
      >
      > have fun ...
      >
      > eduard
      >
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    • Yulian K. Gaard
      *points at williams yelling; Positivist ! Burn the vist !!! * Okey more constructive ... Noone have ever disprooven god. Respectfully submitted. Magic is a
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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        *points at williams yelling; "Positivist ! Burn the 'vist !!!"*

        Okey more constructive ...
        Noone have ever disprooven god.



        Respectfully submitted.


        " Magic is a way of life. "
      • William Harris
        Yulian, Not disprove, Kill! Bill
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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          Yulian, Not disprove, Kill! Bill

          "Yulian K. Gaard" wrote:

          > *points at williams yelling; "Positivist ! Burn the 'vist !!!"*
          >
          > Okey more constructive ...
          > Noone have ever disprooven god.
          >
          > Respectfully submitted.
          >
          > " Magic is a way of life. "
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Yulian K. Gaard
          Noone have killed god neither. Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and in that he defined the concept of god logically and
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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            Noone have killed god neither.
            Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and in that he defined the concept of god logically and found that he couldent wich was his "killing".


            Respectfully submitted.


            " Magic is a way of life. "
          • William Harris
            Yulian, Aslong as you are happy, Bill
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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              Yulian, Aslong as you are happy, Bill

              "Yulian K. Gaard" wrote:

              > Noone have killed god neither.
              > Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and in that he defined the concept of god logically and found that he couldent wich was his "killing".
              >
              > Respectfully submitted.
              >
              > " Magic is a way of life. "
              >
              > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
              >
              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
              > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Eduard Alf
              Bill, actually the bookdock keeps me on my toes ... i think we would not have fun without him .... eduard ... From: William Harris [mailto:bhvwd@netins.net]
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                Bill,

                actually the bookdock keeps me on my toes ... i think we would not have fun
                without him ....

                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: William Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:47 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


                Eduard, In for a penny. In for a pound. Spin twist our mind. Round and
                round.

                Since bookdoc does not read my postings , Iwill write to you about him and
                we will be safe. I think he may be something new, an absurdist. . His
                nihilism is so profound as to negate the very footings of western thought.
                You and I, because of our scientific education, naturally trust our
                empirical
                pillings, he does not, he discounts Decartes and therefore Husserel. He has
                that deep spark of distrust that marked the early rebels in the exist
                theatre. I could not understand how by pure thuoght they could fortell all
                we
                have found out through science. How dare they kill god before us! Now our
                discussion of the uncertainity principle makes me rethink many things. Bill
              • Eduard Alf
                Yulian, wait for answer no. 4 ... im working on that ... have fun ... eduard ... From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@vip.cybercity.dk] Sent: Friday, June 01,
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                  Yulian,

                  wait for answer no. 4 ... im working on that ...

                  have fun ...

                  eduard

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                  Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:56 AM
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [existlist] answer no. 3



                  *points at williams yelling; "Positivist ! Burn the 'vist !!!"*

                  Okey more constructive ...
                  Noone have ever disprooven god.
                • Eduard Alf
                  hey folks, isnt this getting a bit off the subject ... eduard ... From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@vip.cybercity.dk] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:13 AM
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                    hey folks,

                    isnt this getting a bit off the subject ...

                    eduard

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                    Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:13 AM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


                    Noone have killed god neither.
                    Sartre claim to, but it is invalid in that there is a simple exception - and
                    in that he defined the concept of god logically and found that he couldent
                    wich was his "killing".


                    Respectfully submitted.


                    " Magic is a way of life. "
                  • Yulian K. Gaard
                    But I m bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=) Respectfully
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                      But I'm bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=)


                      Respectfully submitted.


                      " Magic is a way of life. "
                    • Eduard Alf
                      Yulian et folks, sorry to hear you are bored ... the following is answer no. 4 which may be of interest ... 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                        Yulian et folks,

                        sorry to hear you are bored ... the following is answer no. 4 which may be
                        of interest ...

                        4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
                        present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
                        which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ...

                        have fun ...

                        eduard



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                        Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:14 PM
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 3


                        But I'm bored ... And kinda just deleted the last few days of mail as I was
                        busy studying Sartre, Kierkegaard and Existentialism in general =)=)=)
                      • Yulian K. Gaard
                        Okey ... I assume it s you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ?? 4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the present
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                          Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


                          "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
                          present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
                          which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."


                          Respectfully submitted.


                          " Magic is a way of life. "
                        • Eduard Alf
                          Yulian, yep ... my own ... although i dont know what relativistic positivistic means ... think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                            Yulian,

                            yep ... my own ... although i dont know what "relativistic positivistic"
                            means ...

                            think of a long string, held tight ... this represents the time line from
                            start to finish ... then think of a fluctuation at some point in the string
                            (say the middle) ... the string has only one dimension; its length ... the
                            fluctuation or vibration adds other dimensions ... if just up and down, then
                            it has two dimensions ... if up, down and back and forth, then it has three
                            dimensions ... the location of the fluctuation can be seen as akin to time
                            ... so the string or time line, changes into our four dimensional universe
                            and the thing which is the fluctuation suddenly appears ... in the case of
                            the table the fluctuation is in our present time, and it appears as a table
                            ... in past time it may have been a fluctuation as a tree ...

                            of course everything has a time line and these all cross in the present ...
                            the time line for the wood of the table crosses with the time line for the
                            bolts that attach the legs ...

                            can one extend this idea to god ... in that god is also a fluctuation that
                            appears in our time? ...

                            have fun ... im going to take a nap ... thinking is exhausting ...

                            eduard

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                            Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:25 PM
                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                            Okey ... I assume it's you own relativistic posetivistic ideas there ??


                            "4. everything is flowing ... the table is not just a table ... it is the
                            present appearance and includes the tree from which it came and the ashes
                            which it is to become ... like a momentary fluctuation in a time line ..."
                          • Yulian K. Gaard
                            Eduard, relativistic positivistic Posetivism is a line of thinking where science and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                              Eduard,

                              "relativistic positivistic"
                              Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future' if they have enough information.

                              Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others, here especially ment the place in history and society ...

                              Thinking
                              Yulian


                              Respectfully submitted.


                              " Magic is a way of life. "
                            • Eduard Alf
                              Yulian, i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                                Yulian,

                                i suppose ... but the idea here is not specifically within science .. i know
                                that Hawkings got into time lines, but mostly for black holes ... what im
                                offering here is that objects are really an isolated moment within a process
                                ... that if you make a choice now, then you affect the time line ... so ones
                                decisions have to be more than just what you see now ... i suppose that we
                                already know that ... but it is not often put into words ... and is not
                                applied to everything ....

                                have fun ...

                                eduard

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                                Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:40 PM
                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                                Eduard,

                                "relativistic positivistic"
                                Posetivism is a line of thinking where 'science' and especially physics and
                                math is the ideal. Big part of the thinking included is that all things is
                                determined (decided) by factors such as society, biology, molecule
                                structures, chemestry ect. and that those sciences can 'predict the future'
                                if they have enough information.

                                Relativism means that you think that everything is dependant on the others,
                                here especially ment the place in history and society ...

                                Thinking
                                Yulian
                              • Luke Lofland
                                as monty python said Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour Yep. Time and stuff. Didn t Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn t I who
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 1, 2001
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                                  as monty python said

                                  "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                                  Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                                  always mentioned relativity.

                                  Sarcastic me
                                  sweaters


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                                • Eduard Alf
                                  Luke, you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a process
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                    Luke,

                                    you miss the point ... i guess im not being too clear ... the thing is not
                                    evolution or movement through time ... the idea is that an object is a
                                    process and includes both its past and its future, whatever that future may
                                    be ... it is Taoist ... i suppose i have not yet gotten the concept right
                                    myself, since i cant express it clearly ...

                                    eduard

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                    Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 1:29 AM
                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                                    as monty python said

                                    "Life is evolving, revolving, at 50,000 miles and hour"

                                    Yep. Time and stuff. Didn't Einstein say time was relativte. Wasn't I who
                                    always mentioned relativity.

                                    Sarcastic me
                                    sweaters
                                  • Yulian K. Gaard
                                    Eduard ... For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ... For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it s still a wooden coutch - as in made
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                      Eduard ...

                                      For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                                      For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                                      Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                                      In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case. The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but that.

                                      No sence
                                      Yulian

                                      Respectfully submitted.


                                      " Magic is a way of life. "
                                    • Eduard Alf
                                      Yulian, yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                        Yulian,

                                        yes ... for that instance when you are looking at the couch (lets call it a
                                        bench, since i dont know how to spell it either), it is the object that you
                                        use to sit on ... however, what im getting at is that an awareness that it
                                        was once a tree ... im suggesting that this is more than awareness ... that
                                        the tree is part of the time line of the bench and is very real ... for
                                        example, somewhere in a forest somewhere there is an empty space which was
                                        the tree that you chopped down to make the bench ... that space is also a
                                        non-tree ... so if you were counting the forest you would have 9,999 trees
                                        and one non-tree ... so your bench continues to have a certain reality in
                                        its past ... im saying that objects are not static .. they are a moment in a
                                        process ... just as a car is also some ore in a mine somewhere ... and your
                                        morning cereal is also a crop in a field somewhere ...

                                        have fun ...

                                        eduard

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                                        Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:28 AM
                                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4

                                        Eduard ...

                                        For a rock it is kinda obvious statement ...
                                        For something like a tree you might make a coutch from it, but it's still a
                                        wooden coutch - as in "made of a tree".
                                        Only for humans would it make any meaning.

                                        In objects it's a pointless discussion you are comming with weither their
                                        essence or existence comes first - or rather a triviality. If you make a
                                        coutch (though it comes from a tree) the essence of a coutch comes first in
                                        that you are building from an by you thought up idea ... The tree as
                                        existing as a tree would in the making of the coutch be lost in that its
                                        physical properties goes into a natural process. After all, you wont claim
                                        that you are a "soon to be rot"; you are defining yourself from what you
                                        actually is. And probably also from your relations to things in your case.
                                        The bedst description of any person would be that "he is" and nothing but
                                        that.

                                        No sence
                                        Yulian
                                      • Yulian K. Gaard
                                        So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ?? Respectfully submitted.
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                          So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                                          Respectfully submitted.


                                          " Magic is a way of life. "
                                        • Eduard Alf
                                          Yulian, yes ... if you consider dirt as being the materials that come from the body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands is
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                            Yulian,

                                            yes ... if you consider "dirt" as being the materials that come from the
                                            body ... hey did you see where some scientist .. i think in the netherlands
                                            is working on a means to make dead people into fertilizer ... sounds good to
                                            me ...

                                            eduard

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Yulian K. Gaard [mailto:cfp8142@...]
                                            Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:31 PM
                                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [existlist] answer no. 4


                                            So if someone dies, rot in earth and become dirt, then they are still there
                                            as a non-person ? And that dirt is still a person ??


                                            Respectfully submitted.


                                            " Magic is a way of life. "
                                          • Luke Lofland
                                            eduard is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 2, 2001
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                                              eduard

                                              is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                                              see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                              was, is and will be.

                                              Sweaters
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                                            • Eduard Alf
                                              Luke, i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
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                                                Luke,

                                                i guess im not succeeding in being clear .. let me try again ... in physics
                                                there is the idea of probability ... that is you cant simultaneously
                                                determine the location and speed of something ... so think of a line that is
                                                of infinite length ... it is absolutely straight for essentially all of its
                                                length, except for one location which represents the present ... at this
                                                location you have a wave whose amplitude is distributed over a short
                                                distance .. at the precise location the amplitude is high and then lessens
                                                to either side ... it is like a little bulge in the line ... i see this as
                                                the same as a photon of light which can be both a wave and a particle at the
                                                same time ... so you as Luke are on your time line ... you exist in only one
                                                location which is the present and you flow along the time line from the past
                                                to the future ... now, the future is not fixed ... the choices that you make
                                                in the present can change the direction of the line ...

                                                that is what im getting at in saying the table is the present display on its
                                                time line ... it does not exist in the past (to the left on the line) but we
                                                are aware of where it was since the line leads to that empty space
                                                (non-tree) in the forest ... and it does not exist in the future (to the
                                                right on the line) ... the future or direction of the line is dependent upon
                                                what is done today ... if we throw it in the fire, the direction is to
                                                ashes, and if we turn it into a chair then the direction of the time line
                                                will lead to that empty space amongst the living room furniture ...

                                                have fun (but watch where you send your line) ...

                                                eduard

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                                Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:57 AM
                                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4



                                                eduard

                                                is it like the tramalfadorians (spelling?) from slaughterhouse five? They
                                                see in four dimensions. If they saw me for example, they will see me as i
                                                was, is and will be.

                                                Sweaters
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                                              • Luke Lofland
                                                i see i see. Here s a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they like physics): A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jun 3, 2001
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                                                  i see i see.

                                                  Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                                  like physics):
                                                  A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                                  cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                                  Yep, that's it.
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                                                • Eduard Alf
                                                  Luke, nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ... so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jun 4, 2001
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                                                    Luke,

                                                    nope ... the cats dead ... definitely dead ... i heard that story before ...
                                                    so i went out and found the box ... and opened it ... and i can tell you
                                                    truthfully ... THE CATS DEAD ... i killed the cat ... you can inform your
                                                    friends that the story is over, unless they want to do it on TNN ...

                                                    have fun (but dont tell the cat) ...

                                                    eduard

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: Luke Lofland [mailto:hot_male99@...]
                                                    Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:47 AM
                                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: RE: [existlist] answer no. 4

                                                    i see i see.

                                                    Here's a situation that my friends and I discuss alot (because they
                                                    like physics):
                                                    A Cat is in a box. Once the box is opened a gas is released and the
                                                    cat dies. So, the cat in the closed box is both alive and dead.

                                                    Yep, that's it.
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