Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [existlist] Re: Intellectual Dishonesty

Expand Messages
  • Mary Jo Malo
    C.S. Camus examined nihilism in greater depth than the example you provide. I accept his rejection, because it is my rejection. Obviously, I choose the side of
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      C.S.

      Camus examined nihilism in greater depth than the example you provide. I accept his rejection, because it is my rejection. Obviously, I choose the side of hope, because I give an ultimate dignity to the human condition. Even with dictionaries, lexicons and historical context, we are simply offered several definitions. We will always choose the definition that most suits that which we already hold to be true for ourselves. To deny desire and hope in both trivial and profound matters will only guarantee that those who masquerade as humanity will succeed in making us like them. I choose forwards rather than backwards.

      Mary Jo

      "C. S. Wyatt" <existlist1@...> wrote:
      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo Malo" <alcyon11@y...>
      > "If we are to fail, it is better in any case to have stood on the
      > side of those who choose life than on the side of those who are
      > destroying." - Camus
      >
      > Mary Jo
      >

      Camus, especially during the Algerian uprisings, came to see violent
      rebellion as no longer acceptable in the post-WWII environment. Like
      Merleau-Ponty, he came to view the Nihilists and Communists of Soviet
      Russia as suspect.

      Revolution often descends in to a cycle of violence. Camus lectured on
      this, near the time of his death. Camus struggled with the problem of
      violence, as did so many others during the 20th-Century.

      The Nihilists of Russia turned increasingly violent, without logic,
      and Camus studied this and other revolutionary movements. He came to
      view the Nihilists as basically hopeless and caught in a mob
      mentality. The violence lost its meaning -- equality for the workers
      -- and became nothing but destruction.

      Words mean things... which is why we have dictionaries and I am
      careful to post lexicons on my Web site.

      We toss about words too esily without historical context.

      - C. S. Wyatt



      Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

      Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

      TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
      existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


      ---------------------------------
      Do you Yahoo!?
      The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • George Walton
      Philosophy in a dictionary? C. S. Wyatt wrote: ... A Nihilist is not destructive, nor does he or she call for destruction. Nihilism,
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 2, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Philosophy in a dictionary?



        "C. S. Wyatt" <existlist1@...> wrote:
        The following statement is technically inaccurate:

        > Christ, even bacteria have
        > a greater will to live than nihilists.
        >
        > Jo

        A Nihilist is not destructive, nor does he or she call for
        destruction. Nihilism, academically, is a theory that asserts that
        humanity will peak and then descend into chaotic existence. The peaks
        and valleys of this pattern move mankind forward, until a final
        descent -- thousands of years from now, in theory.

        When capitalized, Nihilism is a cousin to Anarchy. It was a political
        movement throughout Europe and found a center in the Slavic nations.
        Eventually, Nihilism even counted as a true force in the Russian
        Revolutionary Movements.

        Nihilism, noun. the beliefs and practices of a revolutionary party in
        Russia in the middle 1800's, which advocated destruction of the old
        order by violence and terrorism to make way for reform.

        On the other hand, nihilism (lowercase) is more a rejection of order
        than an assertion that everything is terrible and we should all die.

        ni�hil�ism n
        1. the general rejection of established social conventions and
        beliefs, especially of morality and religion
        2. a belief that life is pointless and human values are worthless
        3. the belief that there is no objective basis for truth
        4. the belief that all established authority is corrupt and must be
        destroyed in order to rebuild a just society
        5. Ni�hil�ism: a political movement in late 19th-century Russia that
        sought to bring about a just new society by destroying the existing
        one through acts of terrorism and assassination

        (from, of all places: Encarta� World English Dictionary � 1999)

        I could use any number of dictionaries and texts for longer
        definitions, but let us use these simplified definitions.

        The first two easily fit into the Existentialism of early Sartre,
        which is why many consider the two related. The idea that social
        values should be redacted and replaced by internal motivations,
        intrinsic values, is common to many Continental Philosophical schools
        of thought.

        Item 3 is closer to later movements. I hate to sound negative, but
        American "moral relativists" and "cultural relativists" often fall
        under the spell of the "no objective truth" assertion of nihilism.
        Personally, I think there are a few objective truths -- starting with
        mankind is an animal that seeks to survive.

        Items 4 and 5 are Sartre's weakness. In fact, Sartre admired and
        embraced Russian Nihilism as a romantic notion. Camus did the same, in
        "The Just Assassins" -- but he observed a clear distinction between
        Nihilism and nihilism. Dostoevsky and other Russian writers did the same.

        "Nihilism" and "nihilistic" are too often misused, like "Existential"
        and "existentialism."

        - C. S. Wyatt


        Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

        Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

        TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        ---------------------------------
        Do you Yahoo!?
        The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • George Walton
        Words mean things. And God knows only nihilists are permitted to compile the dictionaries we use to confirm the meaning of all the words we use in philosophy.
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 2, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Words mean things. And God knows only nihilists are permitted to compile the dictionaries we use to confirm the meaning of all the words we use in philosophy.

          He does, doesn't he?

          "C. S. Wyatt" <existlist1@...> wrote:
          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo Malo" <alcyon11@y...>
          > "If we are to fail, it is better in any case to have stood on the
          > side of those who choose life than on the side of those who are
          > destroying." - Camus
          >
          > Mary Jo
          >

          Camus, especially during the Algerian uprisings, came to see violent
          rebellion as no longer acceptable in the post-WWII environment. Like
          Merleau-Ponty, he came to view the Nihilists and Communists of Soviet
          Russia as suspect.

          Revolution often descends in to a cycle of violence. Camus lectured on
          this, near the time of his death. Camus struggled with the problem of
          violence, as did so many others during the 20th-Century.

          The Nihilists of Russia turned increasingly violent, without logic,
          and Camus studied this and other revolutionary movements. He came to
          view the Nihilists as basically hopeless and caught in a mob
          mentality. The violence lost its meaning -- equality for the workers
          -- and became nothing but destruction.

          Words mean things... which is why we have dictionaries and I am
          careful to post lexicons on my Web site.

          We toss about words too esily without historical context.

          - C. S. Wyatt



          Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

          Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

          TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          ---------------------------------
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.