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Naturalism = Scientific Determinism, opposite of existentialism

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  • Zithromax
    I looked at the www.naturalism.org website and it appears to be totally opposed to existentialism. The FAQ-like section describes man as a helpless sum of
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 1, 2003
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      I looked at the www.naturalism.org website and it appears to be totally opposed to existentialism. The FAQ-like section describes man as a helpless sum of external forces, no personal responsibility or free will. Punishment for criminals is described only as a means to educate wrong-doers with no expectation that they could have made another choice, only that genetics and external forces made them do the wrong thing and the punishment must exist to provide an opposing force to those which caused the criminal activity to occur.

      This "naturalism" is the same thing as scientific determinism. It is almost an opposite of existentialism.

      Zith
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mary Jo Malo
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:50 PM
      Subject: [existlist] Re: Death, Nothing, and Subjectivity by Tom Clark


      eduard,

      I'm sorry. I forgot to list the URL, didn't I. Here it is:

      http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~philos/MindDict/main.html

      His website appears to be active. I assume he's alive.

      http://naturalism.org/

      Mary Jo

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...> wrote:
      > Mary Jo,
      >
      > Is Tom Clark dead?? From what you describe, I like his
      > philosophy, albeit I would disinclined to apply a label --
      > i.e. "Naturalist".
      >
      > There is nothing special about humans. They live and die,
      > just like the rest of the life in the biosphere. The only
      > thing that might be considered special is their
      > self-awareness, but this is only a result of large brain
      > size.
      >
      > eduard
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Mary Jo Malo" <alcyon11@y...>
      > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:46 PM
      > Subject: [existlist] Death, Nothing, and Subjectivity by Tom
      > Clark
      >
      >
      > > This is an interesting paper at the "Dictionary of the
      > Philosophy of
      > > Mind" website and deals with these three subjects
      > previously
      > > discussed in this group. It takes a little clicking to get
      > to the
      > > actual paper.
      > >
      > > 1. Go to this URL:
      > > 2. Click on the "Index" tab at the top of the page.
      > > 3. In the alphabetical index click on "consciousness"
      > > 4. Click on "Consciousness Papers On-line
      > > 5. Scroll down to "Philosophy of Consciousness, Misc."
      > > 6. Find the paper entitled "Death, Nothing and
      > Subjectivity"
      > >
      > > If I understand Clark correctly, he believes in the
      > biological
      > > explanation of self-awareness; believes everyone has a
      > subjective
      > > experience; we can't know what came before birth or what
      > comes after
      > > death; but that our subjective experience of life is
      > continuous. It's
      > > an interesting synthesis. He also doesn't believe there is
      > a nothing
      > > from which we appeared or a nothing which we enter upon
      > death. Tom
      > > Clark is a self-proclaimed "Naturalist".
      > >
      > > Please forgive me if any of this has been referenced
      > before.
      > >
      > > Mary Jo
      > >
      > >
      > >
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    • eduard at home
      Zith, I agree with your finding. It seemed to me that the Naturalism thingy is devoid of the subjective which is everything to Existentialism. That is why I
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 1, 2003
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        Zith,

        I agree with your finding. It seemed to me that the
        Naturalism thingy is devoid of the subjective which is
        everything to Existentialism. That is why I don't like
        labels. One could have an interest in scientific processes
        and still indulge in a subjective view of personal existence
        ...

        eduard

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Zithromax" <zithromax@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:57 AM
        Subject: [existlist] Naturalism = Scientific Determinism,
        opposite of existentialism


        > I looked at the www.naturalism.org website and it appears
        to be totally opposed to existentialism. The FAQ-like
        section describes man as a helpless sum of external forces,
        no personal responsibility or free will. Punishment for
        criminals is described only as a means to educate
        wrong-doers with no expectation that they could have made
        another choice, only that genetics and external forces made
        them do the wrong thing and the punishment must exist to
        provide an opposing force to those which caused the criminal
        activity to occur.
        >
        > This "naturalism" is the same thing as scientific
        determinism. It is almost an opposite of existentialism.
        >
        > Zith
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