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Re: [existlist] it's actually meaningless

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  • eduard at home
    just_tiis, The bottom line, however, is that life is important. So whether it is pretended or not, there is meaning. eduard ... From: just_tiis
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 1, 2003
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      just_tiis,

      The bottom line, however, is that life is important. So
      whether it is pretended or not, there is meaning.

      eduard

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "just_tiis" <just_tiis@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:17 AM
      Subject: [existlist] it's actually meaningless


      > what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it.
      you're just
      > pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's
      simly your
      > own definition. i mean, life.
      >
      >
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    • Mary Jo Malo
      The Individual Defines Everything (CSW) Mary Jo ... just ... your
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 1, 2003
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        "The Individual Defines Everything" (CSW)

        Mary Jo

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "just_tiis" <just_tiis@y...> wrote:
        > what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it. you're
        just
        > pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's simly
        your
        > own definition. i mean, life.
      • Lorna Landry
        The fact that it s your own definition - that s why its meaningful. Meaning is a personal thing, I think. It is ME who makes MY life MEANINGFUL - that s the
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 9, 2003
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          The fact that it's your own definition - that's why its meaningful. Meaning is a personal thing, I think. It is ME who makes MY life MEANINGFUL - that's the point. That is not meaningless.

          Lorna


          just_tiis <just_tiis@...> wrote:
          what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it. you're just
          pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's simly your
          own definition. i mean, life.



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        • George Walton
          Lorna, When you consider that human identity is merely the way we reconfigure our sense of self over and over and over again from dust to dust, how much
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 9, 2003
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            Lorna,

            When you consider that human identity is merely the way we reconfigure our sense of "self" over and over and over again from dust to dust, how much confidence can we place in the conviction that "who" "i" "am" now, today will not, ten or twenty years from now, be all but unrecognizable? Try, for example, to imagine how folks felt before and after they were sent to the extermination camps in Nazi Germany.

            It is not that human identity is meaningless. Hell, in existential terms, it is veritably bursting at the seams with meaning, right? It is, instead, that the self is essentially a delusion and can never be more than this regarding the crucial relationship between "this is the way I think the world is" and "this is the way I think it ought to be, instead."

            Here, all opinions [in a Godless universe] are essentially interchangable.

            Biggie



            Lorna Landry <lornalandry@...> wrote:
            The fact that it's your own definition - that's why its meaningful. Meaning is a personal thing, I think. It is ME who makes MY life MEANINGFUL - that's the point. That is not meaningless.

            Lorna


            just_tiis <just_tiis@...> wrote:
            what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it. you're just
            pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's simly your
            own definition. i mean, life.



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          • Knott
            ... I can almost agree...however, it is a degree of self-deception. Nogroup Seas
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 9, 2003
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              > It is ME who makes MY life MEANINGFUL

              I can almost agree...however, it is a degree of self-deception.

              Nogroup Seas
            • Lorna Landry
              Biggie, Why do you say merely the way we reconfigure our sense of self ? - I d rather like to think of this incessent re-creation or reinvention of myself as
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 9, 2003
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                Biggie,

                Why do you say 'merely the way we reconfigure our sense of self'? - I'd rather like to think of this incessent re-creation or reinvention of myself as one of my more impressive activities. So I am an endless coming-to-be and passing-away. So what? I would hate to think that ten, twenty years from now, I will be the exact same. Will I not have learned anything new?

                I agree with you that 'self' in the sense of a thing, object, unchanging entity, does not exist, but I do exist, and so do you, existence is an event, not a thing. It's our job to get on with it - existing, that is.

                Lorna


                George Walton <iambiguously@...> wrote:
                Lorna,

                When you consider that human identity is merely the way we reconfigure our sense of "self" over and over and over again from dust to dust, how much confidence can we place in the conviction that "who" "i" "am" now, today will not, ten or twenty years from now, be all but unrecognizable? Try, for example, to imagine how folks felt before and after they were sent to the extermination camps in Nazi Germany.

                It is not that human identity is meaningless. Hell, in existential terms, it is veritably bursting at the seams with meaning, right? It is, instead, that the self is essentially a delusion and can never be more than this regarding the crucial relationship between "this is the way I think the world is" and "this is the way I think it ought to be, instead."

                Here, all opinions [in a Godless universe] are essentially interchangable.

                Biggie



                Lorna Landry wrote:
                The fact that it's your own definition - that's why its meaningful. Meaning is a personal thing, I think. It is ME who makes MY life MEANINGFUL - that's the point. That is not meaningless.

                Lorna


                just_tiis wrote:
                what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it. you're just
                pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's simly your
                own definition. i mean, life.



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              • Lorna Landry
                What do you mean, Nogroup? Interesting choice of words - self deception. Might I hear the opening of a can of worms? Lostins Pace ... I can almost
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 9, 2003
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                  What do you mean, Nogroup? Interesting choice of words - 'self' deception. Might I hear the opening of a can of worms?

                  Lostins Pace


                  Knott <god@...> wrote:
                  > It is ME who makes MY life MEANINGFUL

                  I can almost agree...however, it is a degree of self-deception.

                  Nogroup Seas



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                • Knott
                  ... well if you must read -- and I can t expect anyone to understand (not your fault, I am oblique), I tink I meant (don t know for sure) groupings are
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 9, 2003
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                    > What do you mean, Nogroup?

                    well if you must read -- and I can't expect anyone to understand (not your fault, I am
                    oblique), I tink I meant (don't know for sure) groupings are something I consider
                    invalid as there is no means of having a grouping of one's imagination.

                    you are all potentially fake.

                    >Might I hear the opening of a can of worms?

                    it sounds like a hand-operated can opener.

                    whuzza point?


                    Paintingit Green
                  • Lorna Landry
                    Why can you not have a grouping of one s imagination? Who says so? So it does not exist really? So what? So the whole kit and kaboodle is one big fat dream -
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 9, 2003
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                      Why can you not have a grouping of one's imagination? Who says so? So it does not exist really? So what? So the whole kit and kaboodle is one big fat dream - good for some, not so good for others. We still live and die and ACT, whether it be for others or for ourselves. Existing and acting are the same thing - events.

                      Lorna


                      Knott <god@...> wrote:
                      > What do you mean, Nogroup?

                      well if you must read -- and I can't expect anyone to understand (not your fault, I am
                      oblique), I tink I meant (don't know for sure) groupings are something I consider
                      invalid as there is no means of having a grouping of one's imagination.

                      you are all potentially fake.

                      >Might I hear the opening of a can of worms?

                      it sounds like a hand-operated can opener.

                      whuzza point?


                      Paintingit Green



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                    • George Walton
                      Lorna, I agree with you. Change is fine. It is a way to grow, to experience, to exercise one s freedom. But once you acknowledge that, just as with food or
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 10, 2003
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                        Lorna,

                        I agree with you. Change is fine. It is a way to grow, to experience, to exercise one's freedom. But once you acknowledge that, just as with food or music or clothing or outdoor adventures, human morality is merely a particular choice, essentially interchangable with any other choice, that changes everything.

                        How?

                        Because, in my opinion, it means there is no teleological or ontological foundation upon which to anchor your ethical convictions. Just as you can argue endlessly over whether the music of Bach is superior to that of the Kroonos Quartet, or whether chicken tastes better than turkey [and not be able to resolve it one way or the other] so, too, are all the debates we have about particular moral issues.

                        This, of course, allows us many more behavioral options, eh? We do not have to align our behaviors with The Right Behaviors...we can improvise or experiment on our own with different points of view. But for most folks, not being able to anchor their ethics to The Truth is simply too disturbing, scary, surreal, discomfitting, unappealing. So, most do. That they anchor them to thousands of hopelessly conflicting and contradictory Truths doesn't really bother them in the least, however, because the whole point about The Truth is how embracing one makes you feel emotionally and psychologically: whole, necessary, complete. Really, push coming to shove, almost anyone will do.

                        Biggie

                        Lorna Landry <lornalandry@...> wrote:
                        Biggie,

                        Why do you say 'merely the way we reconfigure our sense of self'? - I'd rather like to think of this incessent re-creation or reinvention of myself as one of my more impressive activities. So I am an endless coming-to-be and passing-away. So what? I would hate to think that ten, twenty years from now, I will be the exact same. Will I not have learned anything new?

                        I agree with you that 'self' in the sense of a thing, object, unchanging entity, does not exist, but I do exist, and so do you, existence is an event, not a thing. It's our job to get on with it - existing, that is.

                        Lorna


                        George Walton <iambiguously@...> wrote:
                        Lorna,

                        When you consider that human identity is merely the way we reconfigure our sense of "self" over and over and over again from dust to dust, how much confidence can we place in the conviction that "who" "i" "am" now, today will not, ten or twenty years from now, be all but unrecognizable? Try, for example, to imagine how folks felt before and after they were sent to the extermination camps in Nazi Germany.

                        It is not that human identity is meaningless. Hell, in existential terms, it is veritably bursting at the seams with meaning, right? It is, instead, that the self is essentially a delusion and can never be more than this regarding the crucial relationship between "this is the way I think the world is" and "this is the way I think it ought to be, instead."

                        Here, all opinions [in a Godless universe] are essentially interchangable.

                        Biggie



                        Lorna Landry wrote:
                        The fact that it's your own definition - that's why its meaningful. Meaning is a personal thing, I think. It is ME who makes MY life MEANINGFUL - that's the point. That is not meaningless.

                        Lorna


                        just_tiis wrote:
                        what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it. you're just
                        pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's simly your
                        own definition. i mean, life.



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