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Re: [existlist] god doesn't exist

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  • William Harris
    Tim. It is nothing personal, really. I set through 15 years of force fed catholic theology. When I hear, read or smell that stuff I go off. I came to this
    Message 1 of 41 , May 18, 2001
      Tim. It is nothing personal, really. I set through 15 years of force fed
      catholic theology. When I hear, read or smell that stuff I go off. I came to
      this group a refugee from religion, the delete button may not be enough. Bill
      "Timothy R. Westerhof" wrote:

      > Ouch Bill!
      >
      > I was merely responding to Eduard, why the hostility? I mean, really? Just
      > hit delete when you see my name.
      >
      > Besides, make me. ;)
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > trw.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: William Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:00 AM
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [existlist] god doesn't exist
      >
      > TRW go preach somewhere else. BILL
      >
      > "Timothy R. Westerhof" wrote:
      >
      > > Eduard,
      > >
      > > The Lord is one Lord. I agree. I don't think that verse inherently
      > > contradicts the Trinity.
      > >
      > > "The definition of the Trinity is this: there is one God, one Being who is
      > > God and only God; yet that one God has three different Persons, separate
      > > personas, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son is referred to as the
      > > Word in John 1. That's our view. Our view is not that the Father is the
      > same
      > > as the Son. Our view is that the Father is not the Son. Our view is that
      > the
      > > Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son. But that all are equally God.
      > They
      > > possess everything that makes God God. They have God's nature and can be
      > > called God, yet there is only one God."
      > >
      > > You can say the doctrine of the Trinity was "established" or you can say
      > it
      > > was "discovered". Like an answer to a question... Maybe by necessity,
      > but
      > > if it is valid, then where is the problem?
      > >
      > > "Now it's clear that Jesus did not teach the Trinity as I would teach the
      > > Trinity because it's synthetic in that it's taking a number of different
      > > things and synthesizing them into a doctrine. But the synthesis is
      > > legitimate if each of those things is actually taught in the Scripture. In
      > > fact, in the case of the hypostatic union the full humanness and the full
      > > divinity of Jesus Christ were both taught by Him."
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > >
      > > trw.
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Eduard Alf [mailto:yeoman@...]
      > > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:48 AM
      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: RE: [existlist] god doesn't exist
      > >
      > > Tim,
      > >
      > > something to consider ....
      > >
      > > << Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New
      > > Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema
      > in
      > > the Old Testament: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
      > > (Deuteronomy 6:4). The earliest Christians, however, had to cope with the
      > > implications of the coming of Jesus Christ and of the presumed presence
      > and
      > > power of God among them-i.e., the Holy Spirit, whose coming was connected
      > > with the celebration of the Pentecost. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
      > were
      > > associated in such New Testament passages as the Great Commission: "Go
      > > therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of
      > > the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19); and in
      > > the apostolic benediction: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the
      > love
      > > of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2
      > Corinthians
      > > 13:14). Thus, the New Testament established the basis for the doctrine of
      > > the Trinity. >>
      > >
      > > so god is a concept, in the sense of what he is ... the doctrine of the
      > > trinity was not finalized until about the end of the fourth century ...
      > much
      > > later than would allow someone to recall the exact words of Jesus ... the
      > > trinity was established as a doctrine because it was needed, at that time
      > > ...
      > >
      > > eduard
      > >
      > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
      > >
      > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
      > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
      >
      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
      > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
      >
      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
      > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • William Harris
      Tim. It is nothing personal, really. I set through 15 years of force fed catholic theology. When I hear, read or smell that stuff I go off. I came to this
      Message 41 of 41 , May 18, 2001
        Tim. It is nothing personal, really. I set through 15 years of force fed
        catholic theology. When I hear, read or smell that stuff I go off. I came to
        this group a refugee from religion, the delete button may not be enough. Bill
        "Timothy R. Westerhof" wrote:

        > Ouch Bill!
        >
        > I was merely responding to Eduard, why the hostility? I mean, really? Just
        > hit delete when you see my name.
        >
        > Besides, make me. ;)
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > trw.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: William Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:00 AM
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [existlist] god doesn't exist
        >
        > TRW go preach somewhere else. BILL
        >
        > "Timothy R. Westerhof" wrote:
        >
        > > Eduard,
        > >
        > > The Lord is one Lord. I agree. I don't think that verse inherently
        > > contradicts the Trinity.
        > >
        > > "The definition of the Trinity is this: there is one God, one Being who is
        > > God and only God; yet that one God has three different Persons, separate
        > > personas, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son is referred to as the
        > > Word in John 1. That's our view. Our view is not that the Father is the
        > same
        > > as the Son. Our view is that the Father is not the Son. Our view is that
        > the
        > > Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son. But that all are equally God.
        > They
        > > possess everything that makes God God. They have God's nature and can be
        > > called God, yet there is only one God."
        > >
        > > You can say the doctrine of the Trinity was "established" or you can say
        > it
        > > was "discovered". Like an answer to a question... Maybe by necessity,
        > but
        > > if it is valid, then where is the problem?
        > >
        > > "Now it's clear that Jesus did not teach the Trinity as I would teach the
        > > Trinity because it's synthetic in that it's taking a number of different
        > > things and synthesizing them into a doctrine. But the synthesis is
        > > legitimate if each of those things is actually taught in the Scripture. In
        > > fact, in the case of the hypostatic union the full humanness and the full
        > > divinity of Jesus Christ were both taught by Him."
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > trw.
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: Eduard Alf [mailto:yeoman@...]
        > > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:48 AM
        > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: RE: [existlist] god doesn't exist
        > >
        > > Tim,
        > >
        > > something to consider ....
        > >
        > > << Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New
        > > Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema
        > in
        > > the Old Testament: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
        > > (Deuteronomy 6:4). The earliest Christians, however, had to cope with the
        > > implications of the coming of Jesus Christ and of the presumed presence
        > and
        > > power of God among them-i.e., the Holy Spirit, whose coming was connected
        > > with the celebration of the Pentecost. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
        > were
        > > associated in such New Testament passages as the Great Commission: "Go
        > > therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of
        > > the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19); and in
        > > the apostolic benediction: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the
        > love
        > > of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2
        > Corinthians
        > > 13:14). Thus, the New Testament established the basis for the doctrine of
        > > the Trinity. >>
        > >
        > > so god is a concept, in the sense of what he is ... the doctrine of the
        > > trinity was not finalized until about the end of the fourth century ...
        > much
        > > later than would allow someone to recall the exact words of Jesus ... the
        > > trinity was established as a doctrine because it was needed, at that time
        > > ...
        > >
        > > eduard
        > >
        > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        > >
        > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >
        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >
        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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