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Re: [existlist] fight club

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  • David Leon
    ... From: Mark and Bev Tindall To: Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:44 AM Subject: Re: [existlist]
    Message 1 of 12 , May 1 8:53 AM
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mark and Bev Tindall" <tindall@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:44 AM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] fight club


      > eduard wrote:
      >
      >
      > > The idea of Fight Club was that you are not
      > > defined by your possessions.
      >
      >
      > ... and also (wrongly) that fighting is a true masculine pursuit. Having
      completed ubniversity courses in film semiotics my informed opinion is that
      the film is about:
      >
      > 1. Schizophrenia and delusional states
      >
      > 2. Violence as a result of a dominant materialist society.
      >
      > It helps if one knows how to read a film. it also helps if one has good
      comprehension.
      >

      Was the dude who wrote the book on that, somebody who studied the Macerena
      also? I think that would add to his credibility.
      Ok, that was kinda mean. I haven't been mean for a while...to anybody
      really. Oh well. I still dont mean it in a hateful sense. And it doesn't
      have to be taken as mean. I was just thinking of how it COULD seem, at
      least. Funny or mean...funny or mean..hmm

      Dave


      >
      > > It is all about male bonding and the role of men
      > > in society.
      >
      >
      > It is NOT about male bonding which has a very different meaning ...
      psartuicularly in the men's movement of which I have been a part for the
      last decade. The men's movement does not advocate violence. Male bonding
      is not violence!
      >
      >
      > Mark
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
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    • bjunius30
      Hello all:) Movies as such as these that i have pointed out, all do have similarities, as to why people like us, would discuss ideas of existentialism. From
      Message 2 of 12 , May 1 9:47 AM
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        Hello all:)

        Movies as such as these that i have pointed out, all do have
        similarities, as to why people like us, would discuss ideas of
        existentialism. From the examples of movies given; especiallly
        in 'Fight Club', there is a portrayal of sublime perspectives and a
        consummate wealth of innuendo toward: "Kierkegaard, Nietszche, John
        Locke, Bentham, Bertrand Russel, Sartre, Jung, Freud, and many others
        to some varying degree in one moment or another> "Pain does not
        exist"....."Come on hit me...we should do that more often."..."We are
        everywhere, we are the cooks who cook your meals, the waiters who
        serve your food..., etc, etc, (you get the idea)
        Fight club is a rendition of philosophical theory thrown together in
        a ring, to have it out with each, to see who or what would win
        (subjectively speaking in the metaphorical terms)..."I wanted to
        destroy something beautiful", " I was Tyler's cancer, etc....
        Out of philosophy, there is dangerous ideas. Words kill and can be
        used to kill others if not used responsibly. The best example to this
        effect was Einstein and how he revolutionized the Atomic bomb because
        of his E=MC^2.
        Tyler was the duality of abused behavior from an internal world that
        manifested to himself through external focuses and stimulus.
        The fight club was a manifestation of how dominated a "FREE MAN can
        be by his own obsessions with something, as portrayed through
        Commercial idealism and TV Meta-morphoses of public opinion.
        Memento, the second one, which also had some good philosophy to it
        was about how we are what we are. And the proof to it was simple,
        take away a man's short term memory and he would become a freak, no
        matter how intelligent he was or how beautiful he was...also, can
        someone with a vengence for someone else, who forgets all the time,
        possibly have the ability to still lie to themselves?

        Another is pleasantville. It is a lighthearted comedy that presents
        the idea of qualia in a world of black and white sitcom, where two
        teens must free themselves to get out of, to get back into their real
        world.

        Does anyone here know of any other movies that might portray some
        existentialist thinking? I would be interested as well, if you know
        some. Thanks

        Bryan Junius


        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, yeoman <yeoman@v...> wrote:
        > Mark,
        >
        >
        >
        > > ... and also (wrongly) that fighting is a true masculine
        > pursuit. Having completed university courses in film
        > semiotics my informed opinion is that the film is about:
        >
        >
        >
        > > 1. Schizophrenia and delusional states
        > > 2. Violence as a result of a dominant materialist society.
        > > It helps if one knows how to read a film. it also helps
        > if one has good comprehension.
        >
        >
        >
        > ---> Amazing. Once more Mark makes a statement which no
        > one else has made [fighting is a true masculine pursuit] and
        > then proceeds to say it is wrong. Why dont you say that the
        > movie is about swallowing guns and then say that is wrong.
        > Or perhaps it is all about making soap.
        >
        >
        >
        > In any case, your (1) and (2) would apply to a heap other
        > films. They are not specific to Fight Club, as to set it
        > apart. You need to look at the movie again.
        >
        >
        >
        > > It is NOT about male bonding which has a very different
        > meaning ... particularly in the men's movement of which I
        > have been a part for the last decade. The men's movement
        > does not advocate violence. Male bonding is not violence!.
        >
        >
        >
        > ---> It's just a movie Mark. You are focusing upon the
        > surface aspects, as most people do [a lot of women only see
        > it as a vehicle for violence]. What is of importance is
        > what lies underneath. You are missing the message of men
        > having something that is fundamentally theirs, against a
        > world of Ikea. There is tremendous mutual love in those
        > fights.
        >
        >
        >
        > eduard
      • yeoman
        Bryan, What I get from Fight Club is the idea of taking control of your life. Most people just drift through their living years. Flying from one airport to
        Message 3 of 12 , May 1 12:45 PM
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          Bryan,



          What I get from Fight Club is the idea of taking control of
          your life. Most people just drift through their living
          years. Flying from one airport to another; picking your
          furniture out the Ikea catalogue, doing the right thing with
          single serving friends.



          What Taylor is trying to point out is that they are a lost
          generation, without meaning or purpose.



          The fight and the scar on the hand are means by which to
          make one realise that they are actually living. The movie
          has very little to do with violence, although Hollywood has
          overdone it a bit. Those who see violence as central theme
          to this film, just do not understand the underlying concept.



          As to other movies that deal with existence, I suppose you
          could make up quite a list.



          The one which I like the most is, "Wages of Fear", of 1953
          and staring Yves Montand. The original French title was
          "Salaire de la peur". It was later redone [poorly], in 1977
          as "The Sorcerer" staring Roy Scheider.



          The other movie that I enjoy is "The Fountainhead", with
          Gary Cooper. A very existentialist film. It shows an
          architect who chooses for himself, instead of for the crowd.



          eduard
        • Mark and Bev Tindall
          ... I don t really care what anyone else thinks about my opinion. An abundance of testosterone is no substitute for intelligence! Fighting and violence is a
          Message 4 of 12 , May 2 2:18 AM
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            eduard wrote:


            > once more Mark makes a statement which no
            > one else has made [fighting is a true masculine
            > pursuit] and then proceeds to say it is wrong.


            I don't really care what anyone else thinks about my opinion. An abundance of testosterone is no substitute for intelligence! Fighting and violence is a stupid, irrational, illogical, ratbag and irresponsible course of action for anyone. None of my friends advocate fighting and violence.



            > It's just a movie Mark. You are focusing upon
            > the surface aspects


            I am coming to the movie from film semiotics ... which you should study rather than put forward your own misguided interpretation of the film. All art carries content. The content of this film is dual. The good content is the realisation that materialism is not the answer. The bad content is the condoning of violence. Men, in particular, could take some lessons from the pacifist males like Ghandi, Martin Lurther King, John Lennon and Jesus the Messiah. Fighting and violence is not the answer.



            > You are missing the message of men having
            > something that is fundamentally theirs, against a > world of Ikea.


            But what they have is of no ultimate importannce and does not help anyone. Instead, it destroys others ... and ultimately themselves.


            > There is tremendous mutual love in those
            > fights.


            There is no love in violence. It is a contradiction.



            Mark

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mark and Bev Tindall
            ... Those who don t see violence as a central theme have no understanding of film semiotics or contemporary art criticism. Even the title suggests violence
            Message 5 of 12 , May 2 3:03 AM
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              eduard wrote:


              > Those who see violence as central theme
              > to this film, just do not understand the
              > underlying concept.



              Those who don't see violence as a central theme have no understanding of film semiotics or contemporary art criticism. Even the title suggests violence ... 'The FIGHT Club'! I speak as an artist.



              > The other movie that I enjoy is "The
              > Fountainhead", with Gary Cooper. A very
              > existentialist film.


              Ayn Rand is a Romanticist and NOT an Existentialist! This book (and film) has NOTHING to do with existentialism! Look up Ayn Rand's background in a Google search and check for yourself.


              Mark

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • yeoman
              Mark, Did you actually see the film?? eduard ... From: Mark and Bev Tindall To: Sent: Friday, May 02,
              Message 6 of 12 , May 2 7:19 AM
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                Mark,

                Did you actually see the film??

                eduard

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Mark and Bev Tindall" <tindall@...>
                To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 6:03 AM
                Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: fight club


                > eduard wrote:
                >
                > > Those who see violence as central theme
                > > to this film, just do not understand the
                > > underlying concept.
                >
                > Those who don't see violence as a central theme have no
                understanding of film semiotics or contemporary art
                criticism. Even the title suggests violence ... 'The FIGHT
                Club'! I speak as an artist.

                [snip for space] ...
              • Mark and Bev Tindall
                ... Yes ... and I have a video of it as well. It helps to know how to read art. Mark [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 12 , May 2 3:18 PM
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                  eduard wrote:


                  > Did you actually see the film??


                  Yes ... and I have a video of it as well. It helps to know how to read art.


                  Mark

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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