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fight club

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  • shari hyder
    Bryan, I got the impression this was an attempt at copying the idea off “Matrix” and ‘Sixth Sense.” How can anyone justify blowing up buildings,
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 30, 2003
      Bryan,

      I got the impression this was an attempt at copying the idea off
      �Matrix� and �Sixth Sense.� How can anyone justify blowing up
      buildings, causing damage to public and private utilities, and causing
      the death of a man (after he partakes in illegal activities) � all for
      the sake of discovering oneself?

      I felt a lot of anger coming through from the main character. He perhaps
      forgets the very �system� he attempts to destroy is the one which
      brought him to where he is, and provided him with the means of financing
      the various plots.

      If there was a philosophical message, the method of delivering it is
      hard to take. What�s your view on the film?

      I have �Memento� at hand.

      shari


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    • yeoman
      shari, The idea of Fight Club was that you are not defined by your possessions. You are not your Kakis [spelling]. The narrator in the movie defines himself
      Message 2 of 12 , May 1, 2003
        shari,

        The idea of Fight Club was that you are not defined by your
        possessions. You are not your Kakis [spelling]. The
        narrator in the movie defines himself by those things that
        have become symbols in our society, such as the latest
        nick-naks from Ikea.

        The movie particularly directed towards me [most women, whom
        I spoken to, do not understand the movie]. It is all about
        male bonding and the role of men in society. The blowing up
        of buildings was for purpose of returning us to a more
        primitive lifestyle where things had a more direct and
        fundamental meaning.

        I enjoyed the movie and found it to be much better than the
        book.

        eduard

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "shari hyder" <hydersjmj@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:22 AM
        Subject: [existlist] fight club


        Bryan,

        I got the impression this was an attempt at copying the idea
        off
        "Matrix" and 'Sixth Sense." How can anyone justify blowing
        up
        buildings, causing damage to public and private utilities,
        and causing
        the death of a man (after he partakes in illegal
        activities) - all for
        the sake of discovering oneself?

        I felt a lot of anger coming through from the main
        character. He perhaps
        forgets the very 'system' he attempts to destroy is the one
        which
        brought him to where he is, and provided him with the means
        of financing
        the various plots.

        If there was a philosophical message, the method of
        delivering it is
        hard to take. What's your view on the film?

        I have 'Memento' at hand.

        shari


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      • shari hyder
        Eduard, Thanks. That helps towards understanding the movie. shari ... From: yeoman [mailto:yeoman@videotron.ca] Sent: Thursday, 1 May 2003 10:21 p.m. To:
        Message 3 of 12 , May 1, 2003
          Eduard,

          Thanks. That helps towards understanding the movie.

          shari

          -----Original Message-----
          From: yeoman [mailto:yeoman@...]
          Sent: Thursday, 1 May 2003 10:21 p.m.
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [existlist] fight club

          shari,

          The idea of Fight Club was that you are not defined by your
          possessions. You are not your Kakis [spelling]. The
          narrator in the movie defines himself by those things that
          have become symbols in our society, such as the latest
          nick-naks from Ikea.

          The movie particularly directed towards me [most women, whom
          I spoken to, do not understand the movie]. It is all about
          male bonding and the role of men in society. The blowing up
          of buildings was for purpose of returning us to a more
          primitive lifestyle where things had a more direct and
          fundamental meaning.

          I enjoyed the movie and found it to be much better than the
          book.

          eduard

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "shari hyder" <hydersjmj@...>
          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:22 AM
          Subject: [existlist] fight club


          Bryan,

          I got the impression this was an attempt at copying the idea
          off
          "Matrix" and 'Sixth Sense." How can anyone justify blowing
          up
          buildings, causing damage to public and private utilities,
          and causing
          the death of a man (after he partakes in illegal
          activities) - all for
          the sake of discovering oneself?

          I felt a lot of anger coming through from the main
          character. He perhaps
          forgets the very 'system' he attempts to destroy is the one
          which
          brought him to where he is, and provided him with the means
          of financing
          the various plots.

          If there was a philosophical message, the method of
          delivering it is
          hard to take. What's your view on the film?

          I have 'Memento' at hand.

          shari


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mark and Bev Tindall
          ... ... and also (wrongly) that fighting is a true masculine pursuit. Having completed ubniversity courses in film semiotics my informed opinion is that the
          Message 4 of 12 , May 1, 2003
            eduard wrote:


            > The idea of Fight Club was that you are not
            > defined by your possessions.


            ... and also (wrongly) that fighting is a true masculine pursuit. Having completed ubniversity courses in film semiotics my informed opinion is that the film is about:

            1. Schizophrenia and delusional states

            2. Violence as a result of a dominant materialist society.

            It helps if one knows how to read a film. it also helps if one has good comprehension.


            > It is all about male bonding and the role of men
            > in society.


            It is NOT about male bonding which has a very different meaning ... psartuicularly in the men's movement of which I have been a part for the last decade. The men's movement does not advocate violence. Male bonding is not violence!


            Mark

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • yeoman
            Mark, ... pursuit. Having completed university courses in film ... if one has good comprehension. ... one else has made [fighting is a true masculine pursuit]
            Message 5 of 12 , May 1, 2003
              Mark,



              > ... and also (wrongly) that fighting is a true masculine
              pursuit. Having completed university courses in film
              semiotics my informed opinion is that the film is about:



              > 1. Schizophrenia and delusional states
              > 2. Violence as a result of a dominant materialist society.
              > It helps if one knows how to read a film. it also helps
              if one has good comprehension.



              ---> Amazing. Once more Mark makes a statement which no
              one else has made [fighting is a true masculine pursuit] and
              then proceeds to say it is wrong. Why dont you say that the
              movie is about swallowing guns and then say that is wrong.
              Or perhaps it is all about making soap.



              In any case, your (1) and (2) would apply to a heap other
              films. They are not specific to Fight Club, as to set it
              apart. You need to look at the movie again.



              > It is NOT about male bonding which has a very different
              meaning ... particularly in the men's movement of which I
              have been a part for the last decade. The men's movement
              does not advocate violence. Male bonding is not violence!.



              ---> It's just a movie Mark. You are focusing upon the
              surface aspects, as most people do [a lot of women only see
              it as a vehicle for violence]. What is of importance is
              what lies underneath. You are missing the message of men
              having something that is fundamentally theirs, against a
              world of Ikea. There is tremendous mutual love in those
              fights.



              eduard
            • David Leon
              ... From: Mark and Bev Tindall To: Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:44 AM Subject: Re: [existlist]
              Message 6 of 12 , May 1, 2003
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Mark and Bev Tindall" <tindall@...>
                To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:44 AM
                Subject: Re: [existlist] fight club


                > eduard wrote:
                >
                >
                > > The idea of Fight Club was that you are not
                > > defined by your possessions.
                >
                >
                > ... and also (wrongly) that fighting is a true masculine pursuit. Having
                completed ubniversity courses in film semiotics my informed opinion is that
                the film is about:
                >
                > 1. Schizophrenia and delusional states
                >
                > 2. Violence as a result of a dominant materialist society.
                >
                > It helps if one knows how to read a film. it also helps if one has good
                comprehension.
                >

                Was the dude who wrote the book on that, somebody who studied the Macerena
                also? I think that would add to his credibility.
                Ok, that was kinda mean. I haven't been mean for a while...to anybody
                really. Oh well. I still dont mean it in a hateful sense. And it doesn't
                have to be taken as mean. I was just thinking of how it COULD seem, at
                least. Funny or mean...funny or mean..hmm

                Dave


                >
                > > It is all about male bonding and the role of men
                > > in society.
                >
                >
                > It is NOT about male bonding which has a very different meaning ...
                psartuicularly in the men's movement of which I have been a part for the
                last decade. The men's movement does not advocate violence. Male bonding
                is not violence!
                >
                >
                > Mark
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • bjunius30
                Hello all:) Movies as such as these that i have pointed out, all do have similarities, as to why people like us, would discuss ideas of existentialism. From
                Message 7 of 12 , May 1, 2003
                  Hello all:)

                  Movies as such as these that i have pointed out, all do have
                  similarities, as to why people like us, would discuss ideas of
                  existentialism. From the examples of movies given; especiallly
                  in 'Fight Club', there is a portrayal of sublime perspectives and a
                  consummate wealth of innuendo toward: "Kierkegaard, Nietszche, John
                  Locke, Bentham, Bertrand Russel, Sartre, Jung, Freud, and many others
                  to some varying degree in one moment or another> "Pain does not
                  exist"....."Come on hit me...we should do that more often."..."We are
                  everywhere, we are the cooks who cook your meals, the waiters who
                  serve your food..., etc, etc, (you get the idea)
                  Fight club is a rendition of philosophical theory thrown together in
                  a ring, to have it out with each, to see who or what would win
                  (subjectively speaking in the metaphorical terms)..."I wanted to
                  destroy something beautiful", " I was Tyler's cancer, etc....
                  Out of philosophy, there is dangerous ideas. Words kill and can be
                  used to kill others if not used responsibly. The best example to this
                  effect was Einstein and how he revolutionized the Atomic bomb because
                  of his E=MC^2.
                  Tyler was the duality of abused behavior from an internal world that
                  manifested to himself through external focuses and stimulus.
                  The fight club was a manifestation of how dominated a "FREE MAN can
                  be by his own obsessions with something, as portrayed through
                  Commercial idealism and TV Meta-morphoses of public opinion.
                  Memento, the second one, which also had some good philosophy to it
                  was about how we are what we are. And the proof to it was simple,
                  take away a man's short term memory and he would become a freak, no
                  matter how intelligent he was or how beautiful he was...also, can
                  someone with a vengence for someone else, who forgets all the time,
                  possibly have the ability to still lie to themselves?

                  Another is pleasantville. It is a lighthearted comedy that presents
                  the idea of qualia in a world of black and white sitcom, where two
                  teens must free themselves to get out of, to get back into their real
                  world.

                  Does anyone here know of any other movies that might portray some
                  existentialist thinking? I would be interested as well, if you know
                  some. Thanks

                  Bryan Junius


                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, yeoman <yeoman@v...> wrote:
                  > Mark,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > ... and also (wrongly) that fighting is a true masculine
                  > pursuit. Having completed university courses in film
                  > semiotics my informed opinion is that the film is about:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > 1. Schizophrenia and delusional states
                  > > 2. Violence as a result of a dominant materialist society.
                  > > It helps if one knows how to read a film. it also helps
                  > if one has good comprehension.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---> Amazing. Once more Mark makes a statement which no
                  > one else has made [fighting is a true masculine pursuit] and
                  > then proceeds to say it is wrong. Why dont you say that the
                  > movie is about swallowing guns and then say that is wrong.
                  > Or perhaps it is all about making soap.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In any case, your (1) and (2) would apply to a heap other
                  > films. They are not specific to Fight Club, as to set it
                  > apart. You need to look at the movie again.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > It is NOT about male bonding which has a very different
                  > meaning ... particularly in the men's movement of which I
                  > have been a part for the last decade. The men's movement
                  > does not advocate violence. Male bonding is not violence!.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---> It's just a movie Mark. You are focusing upon the
                  > surface aspects, as most people do [a lot of women only see
                  > it as a vehicle for violence]. What is of importance is
                  > what lies underneath. You are missing the message of men
                  > having something that is fundamentally theirs, against a
                  > world of Ikea. There is tremendous mutual love in those
                  > fights.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > eduard
                • yeoman
                  Bryan, What I get from Fight Club is the idea of taking control of your life. Most people just drift through their living years. Flying from one airport to
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 1, 2003
                    Bryan,



                    What I get from Fight Club is the idea of taking control of
                    your life. Most people just drift through their living
                    years. Flying from one airport to another; picking your
                    furniture out the Ikea catalogue, doing the right thing with
                    single serving friends.



                    What Taylor is trying to point out is that they are a lost
                    generation, without meaning or purpose.



                    The fight and the scar on the hand are means by which to
                    make one realise that they are actually living. The movie
                    has very little to do with violence, although Hollywood has
                    overdone it a bit. Those who see violence as central theme
                    to this film, just do not understand the underlying concept.



                    As to other movies that deal with existence, I suppose you
                    could make up quite a list.



                    The one which I like the most is, "Wages of Fear", of 1953
                    and staring Yves Montand. The original French title was
                    "Salaire de la peur". It was later redone [poorly], in 1977
                    as "The Sorcerer" staring Roy Scheider.



                    The other movie that I enjoy is "The Fountainhead", with
                    Gary Cooper. A very existentialist film. It shows an
                    architect who chooses for himself, instead of for the crowd.



                    eduard
                  • Mark and Bev Tindall
                    ... I don t really care what anyone else thinks about my opinion. An abundance of testosterone is no substitute for intelligence! Fighting and violence is a
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 2, 2003
                      eduard wrote:


                      > once more Mark makes a statement which no
                      > one else has made [fighting is a true masculine
                      > pursuit] and then proceeds to say it is wrong.


                      I don't really care what anyone else thinks about my opinion. An abundance of testosterone is no substitute for intelligence! Fighting and violence is a stupid, irrational, illogical, ratbag and irresponsible course of action for anyone. None of my friends advocate fighting and violence.



                      > It's just a movie Mark. You are focusing upon
                      > the surface aspects


                      I am coming to the movie from film semiotics ... which you should study rather than put forward your own misguided interpretation of the film. All art carries content. The content of this film is dual. The good content is the realisation that materialism is not the answer. The bad content is the condoning of violence. Men, in particular, could take some lessons from the pacifist males like Ghandi, Martin Lurther King, John Lennon and Jesus the Messiah. Fighting and violence is not the answer.



                      > You are missing the message of men having
                      > something that is fundamentally theirs, against a > world of Ikea.


                      But what they have is of no ultimate importannce and does not help anyone. Instead, it destroys others ... and ultimately themselves.


                      > There is tremendous mutual love in those
                      > fights.


                      There is no love in violence. It is a contradiction.



                      Mark

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Mark and Bev Tindall
                      ... Those who don t see violence as a central theme have no understanding of film semiotics or contemporary art criticism. Even the title suggests violence
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 2, 2003
                        eduard wrote:


                        > Those who see violence as central theme
                        > to this film, just do not understand the
                        > underlying concept.



                        Those who don't see violence as a central theme have no understanding of film semiotics or contemporary art criticism. Even the title suggests violence ... 'The FIGHT Club'! I speak as an artist.



                        > The other movie that I enjoy is "The
                        > Fountainhead", with Gary Cooper. A very
                        > existentialist film.


                        Ayn Rand is a Romanticist and NOT an Existentialist! This book (and film) has NOTHING to do with existentialism! Look up Ayn Rand's background in a Google search and check for yourself.


                        Mark

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • yeoman
                        Mark, Did you actually see the film?? eduard ... From: Mark and Bev Tindall To: Sent: Friday, May 02,
                        Message 11 of 12 , May 2, 2003
                          Mark,

                          Did you actually see the film??

                          eduard

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Mark and Bev Tindall" <tindall@...>
                          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 6:03 AM
                          Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: fight club


                          > eduard wrote:
                          >
                          > > Those who see violence as central theme
                          > > to this film, just do not understand the
                          > > underlying concept.
                          >
                          > Those who don't see violence as a central theme have no
                          understanding of film semiotics or contemporary art
                          criticism. Even the title suggests violence ... 'The FIGHT
                          Club'! I speak as an artist.

                          [snip for space] ...
                        • Mark and Bev Tindall
                          ... Yes ... and I have a video of it as well. It helps to know how to read art. Mark [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 12 , May 2, 2003
                            eduard wrote:


                            > Did you actually see the film??


                            Yes ... and I have a video of it as well. It helps to know how to read art.


                            Mark

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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