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Re: [existlist] Language

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  • Sue McPherson
    Please, list members, do not respond to messages which included language considered offensive, and do not keep using this kind of language. Sue McPherson
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 9, 2003
      Please, list members, do not respond to messages
      which included language considered offensive,
      and do not keep using this kind of language.

      Sue McPherson
    • C. S. Wyatt
      This is where language is a nightmare for writers, poets, philosophers, and everyone else: You are my true love. Do you promise to the the truth, the whole
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 27, 2004
        This is where language is a nightmare for writers, poets,
        philosophers, and everyone else:

        "You are my true love."

        "Do you promise to the the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
        truth?"

        Ok. What is "true" in that sentence? Once you examine "truth" and
        "true" in English, instead of limiting yourself to an academic
        lexicon, you can create some curious issues.

        True and Truth can mean:
        1. agreeing with accepted facts
        2. real; genuine.
        3. faithful; loyal; constant, staunch.
        4. agreeing with a standard; right; proper; correct; exact; accurate.
        5. representative of the parent class named.
        6. rightful; lawful.
        7. sure; confident.
        8. accurately formed, fitted, or placed.
        9. steady, as in direction or force; unchanging.
        10. truthful.
        11. honest.
        12. exact or accurate formation, position, or adjustment.
        13. to make true;
        14. to shape, place, or make, as required.
        15. exactly.
        16. in agreement with the ancestral type.
        17. to happen as expected;
        18. to become real;
        19. supported by enough evidence to justify hearing.

        Sadly, I could go on for another two dozen entries in my Webster's New
        World, but my point is hopefully made: academics use a lexicon so they
        don't wonder which of the three dozen definitions is meant within a
        text or journal article.

        Sartre included a lexicon in his works, as did Jaspers and Frankl, for
        this very reason. You want to be clearly understood, without a lot of
        debate. (Just watch people debate the meanings of any written work!)

        Kierkegaard wrote sardonic essays most of the time. Essays allow for
        wonderful plays on words. Sadly, I do not understand Germanic
        languages well enough to get his puns, but I have been assured that in
        the original forms, Kierkegaard's works are quite funny. Idioms and
        jokes seldom translate well.

        42nd Street, the musical, was so translated almost literally in
        Russian. One of the characters became "she with her legs wide open"
        which had the American producer nearly choking. That's language for you.

        - C. S. Wyatt
      • C. S. Wyatt
        This is where language is a nightmare for writers, poets, philosophers, and everyone else: You are my true love. Do you promise to the the truth, the whole
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 27, 2004
          This is where language is a nightmare for writers, poets,
          philosophers, and everyone else:

          "You are my true love."

          "Do you promise to the the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
          truth?"

          Ok. What is "true" in that sentence? Once you examine "truth" and
          "true" in English, instead of limiting yourself to an academic
          lexicon, you can create some curious issues.

          True and Truth can mean:
          1. agreeing with accepted facts
          2. real; genuine.
          3. faithful; loyal; constant, staunch.
          4. agreeing with a standard; right; proper; correct; exact; accurate.
          5. representative of the parent class named.
          6. rightful; lawful.
          7. sure; confident.
          8. accurately formed, fitted, or placed.
          9. steady, as in direction or force; unchanging.
          10. truthful.
          11. honest.
          12. exact or accurate formation, position, or adjustment.
          13. to make true;
          14. to shape, place, or make, as required.
          15. exactly.
          16. in agreement with the ancestral type.
          17. to happen as expected;
          18. to become real;
          19. supported by enough evidence to justify hearing.

          Sadly, I could go on for another two dozen entries in my Webster's New
          World, but my point is hopefully made: academics use a lexicon so they
          don't wonder which of the three dozen definitions is meant within a
          text or journal article.

          Sartre included a lexicon in his works, as did Jaspers and Frankl, for
          this very reason. You want to be clearly understood, without a lot of
          debate. (Just watch people debate the meanings of any written work!)

          Kierkegaard wrote sardonic essays most of the time. Essays allow for
          wonderful plays on words. Sadly, I do not understand Germanic
          languages well enough to get his puns, but I have been assured that in
          the original forms, Kierkegaard's works are quite funny. Idioms and
          jokes seldom translate well.

          42nd Street, the musical, was so translated almost literally in
          Russian. One of the characters became "she with her legs wide open"
          which had the American producer nearly choking. That's language for you.

          - C. S. Wyatt
        • bhvwd
          Jo, I sat quietly and listned while three islanders had a heated conversation, I could not make out even one word. Then a rasta showed up and they changed
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 8, 2004
            Jo, I sat quietly and listned while three islanders had a heated
            conversation, I could not make out even one word. Then a rasta showed
            up and they changed their speach to something I could begin to make
            out. Then a local Brit showed up and he elected to converse in
            whatever they were speaking at first. The Jamacian seemed as locked
            out as I was. So I started talking with a couple of guys from
            Boston , using a lot of American slang. The rest of them stopped
            talking and listned intently to us. All seemed to have a fine time
            and in crisis one could always point to the menue which was in
            English, French and Spanish. The Euro is the currency but no one
            carries it, they carry dollars. Everybody runs around naked so there
            is very little class distinction as to dress. Wearing a good deal of
            gold seems to carry some weight but everybody drinks Presidente from
            the Dominican Republic. We were watching the Heiniken Regatta just
            off shore but all agreed the green death is piss water. The parrot
            would only drink Stella Artwa. Bill
          • alcyon11
            Speech cannot be betrayed, for speech betrays, And what we say reveals the men we are. But, once come to a land where no-one is, We long for conversation, and
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 13, 2004
              Speech cannot be betrayed, for speech betrays,
              And what we say reveals the men we are.
              But, once come to a land where no-one is,
              We long for conversation, and a voice
              Which answers what we say when we succeed
              In saying for a moment that which is.
              O careless world, which covers what is there
              With what it hopes, or what best cheats and pays,
              But speech with others needs another tongue.
              For a to speak to b, and b to a,
              A stream of commonalty must be found,
              Rippling at times, at times an even flow,
              And yet it turns to Lethe in the end.

              C.H. Sisson
              9th Tristia

              Louise please forgive me if you've posted this one before,
              Mary Jo
            • Mary Jo
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 4, 2004
                <My thesis project would interest some here, as I am working on how
                the brain constructs written language, with an emphasis on how we can
                approach teaching writing more effectively in "special" situations.
                I'm interested in how ideas become words -- or as Chomsky has argued,
                how words allow for ideas. (It's an interesting problem, since we
                need words to measure some knowledge. This leads to "what is real" in
                language.)> CSW

                CSW, This might be of interest. Although it doesn't deal specifically
                with 'written' language, it deals with how the brain is 'prepared'
                and 'constructed' to develop and use language. We are genetically pre-
                wired, though not for a specific language. The internal links are
                informative as well. Mary

                <http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D636E-E3C0-1149-
                A2E783414B7F4945>
              • eduard at home
                We speak by means of mental scripts . Thus language not only enables our communication but also affects our thinking. eduard ... From: Mary Jo To:
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 4, 2004
                  We speak by means of "mental scripts". Thus language not only enables our communication but also affects our thinking.

                  eduard
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Mary Jo
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:58 PM
                  Subject: [existlist] Language



                  <My thesis project would interest some here, as I am working on how
                  the brain constructs written language, with an emphasis on how we can
                  approach teaching writing more effectively in "special" situations.
                  I'm interested in how ideas become words -- or as Chomsky has argued,
                  how words allow for ideas. (It's an interesting problem, since we
                  need words to measure some knowledge. This leads to "what is real" in
                  language.)> CSW

                  CSW, This might be of interest. Although it doesn't deal specifically
                  with 'written' language, it deals with how the brain is 'prepared'
                  and 'constructed' to develop and use language. We are genetically pre-
                  wired, though not for a specific language. The internal links are
                  informative as well. Mary

                  <http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D636E-E3C0-1149-
                  A2E783414B7F4945>





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                • bjunius30
                  But action is the enemy of thought eduard! ... enables our communication but also affects our thinking. ... how ... can ... situations. ... argued, ... real
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 4, 2004
                    But action is the enemy of thought eduard!




                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...> wrote:
                    > We speak by means of "mental scripts". Thus language not only
                    enables our communication but also affects our thinking.
                    >
                    > eduard
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Mary Jo
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:58 PM
                    > Subject: [existlist] Language
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > <My thesis project would interest some here, as I am working on
                    how
                    > the brain constructs written language, with an emphasis on how we
                    can
                    > approach teaching writing more effectively in "special"
                    situations.
                    > I'm interested in how ideas become words -- or as Chomsky has
                    argued,
                    > how words allow for ideas. (It's an interesting problem, since we
                    > need words to measure some knowledge. This leads to "what is
                    real" in
                    > language.)> CSW
                    >
                    > CSW, This might be of interest. Although it doesn't deal
                    specifically
                    > with 'written' language, it deals with how the brain
                    is 'prepared'
                    > and 'constructed' to develop and use language. We are genetically
                    pre-
                    > wired, though not for a specific language. The internal links are
                    > informative as well. Mary
                    >
                    > <http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D636E-E3C0-1149-
                    > A2E783414B7F4945>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                    > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    ----------
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
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                    > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                  • louise
                    Patient Wordsmith, Try getting out of Hamlet , and diving into Macbeth . You Americans miss out on so much, without a living monarchy ... Anti-Republican
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 4, 2004
                      Patient Wordsmith,

                      Try getting out of 'Hamlet', and diving into 'Macbeth'.

                      You Americans miss out on so much, without a living monarchy ...

                      Anti-Republican Aryan Socialist

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bjunius30" <bjunius30@n...> wrote:
                      >
                      > But action is the enemy of thought eduard!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...>
                      wrote:
                      > > We speak by means of "mental scripts". Thus language not only
                      > enables our communication but also affects our thinking.
                      > >
                      > > eduard
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: Mary Jo
                      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:58 PM
                      > > Subject: [existlist] Language
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > <My thesis project would interest some here, as I am working
                      on
                      > how
                      > > the brain constructs written language, with an emphasis on how
                      we
                      > can
                      > > approach teaching writing more effectively in "special"
                      > situations.
                      > > I'm interested in how ideas become words -- or as Chomsky has
                      > argued,
                      > > how words allow for ideas. (It's an interesting problem, since
                      we
                      > > need words to measure some knowledge. This leads to "what is
                      > real" in
                      > > language.)> CSW
                      > >
                      > > CSW, This might be of interest. Although it doesn't deal
                      > specifically
                      > > with 'written' language, it deals with how the brain
                      > is 'prepared'
                      > > and 'constructed' to develop and use language. We are
                      genetically
                      > pre-
                      > > wired, though not for a specific language. The internal links
                      are
                      > > informative as well. Mary
                      > >
                      > > <http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D636E-E3C0-1149-
                      > > A2E783414B7F4945>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                      > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
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                      > ----------
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                      > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
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                      > Service.
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                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • bjunius30
                      To be or not to be. If you plan to be a poet then you are the suffering that you keep. And perhaps that is not too much to your boot, but an affair of words
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 4, 2004
                        "To be or not to be."

                        If you plan to be a poet then you are the suffering that you
                        keep. And perhaps that is not too much to your boot, but an
                        affair of words are like daggers, and you must pierce them
                        through for what else can they do?

                        Yes, Anti-republican too, but hardly the fool!

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Patient Wordsmith,
                        >
                        > Try getting out of 'Hamlet', and diving into 'Macbeth'.
                        >
                        > You Americans miss out on so much, without a living monarchy ...
                        >
                        > Anti-Republican Aryan Socialist
                        >
                        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bjunius30" <bjunius30@n...>
                        wrote:
                        > >
                        > > But action is the enemy of thought eduard!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > > We speak by means of "mental scripts". Thus language not only
                        > > enables our communication but also affects our thinking.
                        > > >
                        > > > eduard
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: Mary Jo
                        > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:58 PM
                        > > > Subject: [existlist] Language
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > <My thesis project would interest some here, as I am working
                        > on
                        > > how
                        > > > the brain constructs written language, with an emphasis on
                        how
                        > we
                        > > can
                        > > > approach teaching writing more effectively in "special"
                        > > situations.
                        > > > I'm interested in how ideas become words -- or as Chomsky has
                        > > argued,
                        > > > how words allow for ideas. (It's an interesting problem,
                        since
                        > we
                        > > > need words to measure some knowledge. This leads to "what is
                        > > real" in
                        > > > language.)> CSW
                        > > >
                        > > > CSW, This might be of interest. Although it doesn't deal
                        > > specifically
                        > > > with 'written' language, it deals with how the brain
                        > > is 'prepared'
                        > > > and 'constructed' to develop and use language. We are
                        > genetically
                        > > pre-
                        > > > wired, though not for a specific language. The internal links
                        > are
                        > > > informative as well. Mary
                        > > >
                        > > > <http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D636E-E3C0-
                        1149-
                        > > > A2E783414B7F4945>
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                        > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                        -
                        > ---
                        > > ----------
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                        > > >
                        > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > >
                        > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                        Terms
                        > of
                        > > Service.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • louise
                        If you plan to stay in that play, I ll speak to you from the other one. Had he his hurts before? Ay, on the front . The one thing I envy the Scots (apart
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 4, 2004
                          If you plan to stay in that play, I'll speak to you from the other
                          one.

                          "Had he his hurts before?"
                          "Ay, on the front".

                          The one thing I envy the Scots (apart from the landscapes): they
                          understand the importance of teaching history to the young.

                          Louise


                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bjunius30" <bjunius30@n...> wrote:
                          >
                          > "To be or not to be."
                          >
                          > If you plan to be a poet then you are the suffering that you
                          > keep. And perhaps that is not too much to your boot, but an
                          > affair of words are like daggers, and you must pierce them
                          > through for what else can they do?
                          >
                          > Yes, Anti-republican too, but hardly the fool!
                          >
                          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "louise" <hecubatoher@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Patient Wordsmith,
                          > >
                          > > Try getting out of 'Hamlet', and diving into 'Macbeth'.
                          > >
                          > > You Americans miss out on so much, without a living monarchy ...
                          > >
                          > > Anti-Republican Aryan Socialist
                          > >
                          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bjunius30" <bjunius30@n...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > But action is the enemy of thought eduard!
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > > We speak by means of "mental scripts". Thus language not
                          only
                          > > > enables our communication but also affects our thinking.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > eduard
                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > From: Mary Jo
                          > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:58 PM
                          > > > > Subject: [existlist] Language
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > <My thesis project would interest some here, as I am
                          working
                          > > on
                          > > > how
                          > > > > the brain constructs written language, with an emphasis on
                          > how
                          > > we
                          > > > can
                          > > > > approach teaching writing more effectively in "special"
                          > > > situations.
                          > > > > I'm interested in how ideas become words -- or as Chomsky
                          has
                          > > > argued,
                          > > > > how words allow for ideas. (It's an interesting problem,
                          > since
                          > > we
                          > > > > need words to measure some knowledge. This leads to "what
                          is
                          > > > real" in
                          > > > > language.)> CSW
                          > > > >
                          > > > > CSW, This might be of interest. Although it doesn't deal
                          > > > specifically
                          > > > > with 'written' language, it deals with how the brain
                          > > > is 'prepared'
                          > > > > and 'constructed' to develop and use language. We are
                          > > genetically
                          > > > pre-
                          > > > > wired, though not for a specific language. The internal
                          links
                          > > are
                          > > > > informative as well. Mary
                          > > > >
                          > > > > <http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D636E-E3C0-
                          > 1149-
                          > > > > A2E783414B7F4945>
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                          > > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
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                          > -
                          > > ---
                          > > > ----------
                          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > >
                          > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/
                          > > > >
                          > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > >
                          > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                          > Terms
                          > > of
                          > > > Service.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • eduard at home
                          So what?? ... From: bjunius30 To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 3:57 PM Subject: [existlist] Re: Language But action is the enemy of
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 4, 2004
                            So what??
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: bjunius30
                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 3:57 PM
                            Subject: [existlist] Re: Language



                            But action is the enemy of thought eduard!


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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