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transcendence

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  • yeoman
    timm, That s interesting. According to the dictionary transcendence means ... a state of being or existence above and beyond the limits of material
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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      timm,

      That's interesting. According to the dictionary
      "transcendence" means ... a state of being or existence
      above and beyond the limits of material experience. Is this
      the word as you have used it?? I wonder where this desire
      comes from. Obviously, we cant actually go beyond
      ourselves, as we are stuck in these bodies we have.

      eduard

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "timm" <tmason@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:50 PM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] Zarathustra


      > I really felt like I got a lot out of it. The desire to
      transcend
      > yourself constantly, to better yourself, and to cast off
      beliefs that we
      > don't need anymore. I could really relate to this
      alienated feeling that
      > most people seem to be guided by transparent rules and
      beliefs - much
      > harder to see through your own.
      >
      > I also think he's a really talented writer, especially
      this book.
      >
      > -timm
    • timm
      I was using definition 2 - the state of excelling or surpassing or going beyond usual limits. In this case, I mean to see more clearly your own abilities
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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        I was using definition 2 - "the state of excelling or surpassing or going
        beyond usual limits." In this case, I mean to see more clearly your own
        abilities and limitations, to try to surpass them. To struggle against
        yourself internally and become morally/spiritually stronger.

        As to where this desire comes from, for me it's linked to the existential
        realization that we have total freedom but also responsibility. And that
        all of our choices have consequences, but we cannot see all the
        consequences beforehand. To become wiser, to see more clearly and to
        trust my own eyes... I will make better choices in the future.

        -timm

        On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, yeoman wrote:

        > timm,
        >
        > That's interesting. According to the dictionary
        > "transcendence" means ... a state of being or existence
        > above and beyond the limits of material experience. Is this
        > the word as you have used it?? I wonder where this desire
        > comes from. Obviously, we cant actually go beyond
        > ourselves, as we are stuck in these bodies we have.
        >
        > eduard
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "timm" <tmason@...>
        > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:50 PM
        > Subject: Re: [existlist] Zarathustra
        >
        >
        > > I really felt like I got a lot out of it. The desire to
        > transcend
        > > yourself constantly, to better yourself, and to cast off
        > beliefs that we
        > > don't need anymore. I could really relate to this
        > alienated feeling that
        > > most people seem to be guided by transparent rules and
        > beliefs - much
        > > harder to see through your own.
        > >
        > > I also think he's a really talented writer, especially
        > this book.
        > >
        > > -timm
        >
        >
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >
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        >
      • yeoman
        timm, I wonder if that is the way the word transcendence is being used in philosophy. God is supposed to be transcendent, but I doubt that he is trying to
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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          timm,

          I wonder if that is the way the word "transcendence" is
          being used in philosophy. God is supposed to be
          transcendent, but I doubt that he is trying to surpass
          himself.

          eduard

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "timm" <tmason@...>
          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 2:53 PM
          Subject: Re: [existlist] transcendence


          > I was using definition 2 - "the state of excelling or
          surpassing or going
          > beyond usual limits." In this case, I mean to see more
          clearly your own
          > abilities and limitations, to try to surpass them. To
          struggle against
          > yourself internally and become morally/spiritually
          stronger.
          >
          > As to where this desire comes from, for me it's linked to
          the existential
          > realization that we have total freedom but also
          responsibility. And that
          > all of our choices have consequences, but we cannot see
          all the
          > consequences beforehand. To become wiser, to see more
          clearly and to
          > trust my own eyes... I will make better choices in the
          future.
          >
          > -timm
        • leeedgartyler@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/4/2003 2:21:21 PM Central Standard Time, ... It depends on the philosopher. Kant, Schopenhauer, Emerson, and Thoreau don t use it in
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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            In a message dated 4/4/2003 2:21:21 PM Central Standard Time,
            yeoman@... writes:

            >
            > timm,
            >
            > I wonder if that is the way the word "transcendence" is
            > being used in philosophy. God is supposed to be
            > transcendent, but I doubt that he is trying to surpass
            > himself.
            >
            > eduard
            >

            It depends on the philosopher. Kant, Schopenhauer, Emerson, and Thoreau
            don't use it in either sense.

            Ed Tyler

            http://hometown.aol.com/leeedgartyler/myhomepage/index.html



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • yeoman
            Ed, ... Emerson, and Thoreau ... eduard
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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              Ed,

              > It depends on the philosopher. Kant, Schopenhauer,
              Emerson, and Thoreau
              > don't use it in either sense.

              ---> Yes, I suppose. How do these guys use the term??

              eduard
            • leeedgartyler@aol.com
              In a message dated 4/4/2003 2:38:18 PM Central Standard Time, ... They use it to denote a truth that has no need of empirical proofs. Ed Tyler
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                In a message dated 4/4/2003 2:38:18 PM Central Standard Time,
                yeoman@... writes:

                >
                > Ed,
                >
                > >It depends on the philosopher. Kant, Schopenhauer,
                > Emerson, and Thoreau
                > >don't use it in either sense.
                >
                > ---> Yes, I suppose. How do these guys use the term??
                >
                > eduard
                >

                They use it to denote a truth that has no need of empirical proofs.

                Ed Tyler

                http://hometown.aol.com/leeedgartyler/myhomepage/index.html



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • shari hyder
                Excellent response, Ed. shari ... From: leeedgartyler@aol.com [mailto:leeedgartyler@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, 5 April 2003 9:39 a.m. To:
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                  Excellent response, Ed.

                  shari

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: leeedgartyler@... [mailto:leeedgartyler@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, 5 April 2003 9:39 a.m.
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [existlist] transcendence

                  In a message dated 4/4/2003 2:38:18 PM Central Standard Time,
                  yeoman@... writes:

                  >
                  > Ed,
                  >
                  > >It depends on the philosopher. Kant, Schopenhauer,
                  > Emerson, and Thoreau
                  > >don't use it in either sense.
                  >
                  > ---> Yes, I suppose. How do these guys use the term??
                  >
                  > eduard
                  >

                  They use it to denote a truth that has no need of empirical proofs.

                  Ed Tyler

                  HYPERLINK
                  "http://hometown.aol.com/leeedgartyler/myhomepage/index.html"http://home
                  town.aol.com/leeedgartyler/myhomepage/index.html



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                • Denise Drew
                  ... Yes. I add my approval too. Ed is someone who knows about existentialism. Denise
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shari hyder" <hydersjmj@x> wrote:
                    > Excellent response, Ed.


                    Yes. I add my approval too. Ed is someone who knows about
                    existentialism.


                    Denise
                  • yeoman
                    Denise, ... about ... It is good to know that we have someone here is an approval authority. I would suppose that you are credentialed . eduard
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                      Denise,

                      > Yes. I add my approval too. Ed is someone who knows
                      about
                      > existentialism.

                      It is good to know that we have someone here is an approval
                      authority. I would suppose that you are "credentialed".

                      eduard
                    • leeedgartyler@aol.com
                      In a message dated 4/4/2003 8:07:50 PM Central Standard Time, ... You re both most welcome, and thanks for the kind words. et Ed Tyler
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                        In a message dated 4/4/2003 8:07:50 PM Central Standard Time,
                        skindividual@... writes:

                        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "shari hyder" <hydersjmj@x> wrote:
                        > >Excellent response, Ed.
                        >
                        >
                        > Yes. I add my approval too. Ed is someone who knows about
                        > existentialism.
                        >
                        >
                        > Denise
                        >
                        >

                        You're both most welcome, and thanks for the kind words.

                        et

                        Ed Tyler

                        http://hometown.aol.com/leeedgartyler/myhomepage/index.html



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                      • yeoman
                        Try this: The study of transcendence belongs to metaphysics, and hence we are in the third stage of philosophizing. But the difficulty already found in the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                          Try this:

                          The study of "transcendence" belongs to metaphysics, and
                          hence we are in the third stage of philosophizing. But the
                          difficulty already found in the first and second stages
                          appears again. Our existence is a search for transcendence;
                          but transcendence cannot be reached, because if
                          transcendence were attainable, it would not be
                          transcendence. Thus the transcendence of being is always
                          something else, something more; and any attempt to attain it
                          is destined to fail. There is in my existence an impassable
                          barrier, a limit beyond which there is Transcendence (God),
                          inaccessible to my being in the world. However, the
                          transcendent Being can be perceived in the form of "ciphers"
                          or symbolic characters expressed by the things of the world.
                          Philosophy, in its search for being, reads these ciphers as
                          possible traces of God, as signs and signals pointing toward
                          the ultimate depth and plenitude of Being.

                          Transcendence has nothing to do with truth. It is the
                          transcendence of Being itself which is impossible to attain.

                          eduard
                        • leeedgartyler@aol.com
                          In a message dated 4/4/2003 8:58:02 PM Central Standard Time, ... That is, of course, unless you happen to be Emerson. Then transcendence has everything to do
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                            In a message dated 4/4/2003 8:58:02 PM Central Standard Time,
                            yeoman@... writes:

                            > Transcendence has nothing to do with truth. It is the
                            > transcendence of Being itself which is impossible to attain.
                            >
                            > eduard
                            >

                            That is, of course, unless you happen to be Emerson. Then transcendence has
                            everything to do with truth.

                            Ed Tyler

                            http://hometown.aol.com/leeedgartyler/myhomepage/index.html



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Mark and Bev Tindall
                            ... ... and also unless you happen to be one of the very many Christian Existentialists like Kierkegaard, Doestoevsky, Berdayev and others .... and also unless
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                              Ed wrote:


                              >> Transcendence has nothing to do with
                              >> truth. It is the
                              >> transcendence of Being itself which is
                              >> impossible to attain.
                              > That is, of course, unless you happen to > be Emerson. Then transcendence has
                              > everything to do with truth.


                              ... and also unless you happen to be one of the very many Christian Existentialists like Kierkegaard, Doestoevsky, Berdayev and others .... and also unless you happen to be a Jewish Existentialist like Buber ... because transcendence has everything to do with truth for these people too.

                              Thanks for your posts on Existentialism (and not empirical science), Ed. It was good! :-)


                              Mark

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • yeoman
                              Ed, ... transcendence has ... I agree with what you are saying. Transcendence is used in different ways depending upon who is doing the speaking and what is
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 4, 2003
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                                Ed,

                                > That is, of course, unless you happen to be Emerson. Then
                                transcendence has
                                > everything to do with truth.

                                --->


                                I agree with what you are saying. "Transcendence" is used
                                in different ways depending upon who is doing the speaking
                                and what is the thing that he/she is speaking about. I take
                                it that "transcendence" is the transcendence of Being --- of
                                the For-itself projecting to a realm which it cannot attain.



                                If we are speaking about knowledge, then transcendence
                                relates to the realm of thought which lies beyond the
                                boundary of possible knowledge, because it consists of
                                objects which cannot be presented to us in intuition-i.e.,
                                objects which we can never experience with our senses
                                (sometimes called noumena). The closest we can get to
                                gaining knowledge of the transcendent realm is to think
                                about it by means of ideas.



                                If i were to use the view of neuroscience, then i would say
                                that this transcendent realm is beyond our senses as to
                                produce signals to the mind from the outside world. In
                                which case, we must resort to our imagination.



                                eduard




                                >
                                > Ed Tyler
                                >
                                >
                                http://hometown.aol.com/leeedgartyler/myhomepage/index.html
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                              • Lorna Landry
                                Eduard, We go beyond (transcend) ourselves everyday with our conscious ability. I can imagine you sitting at your computer reading the posts, but my body sits
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 5, 2003
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                                  Eduard,
                                  We go beyond (transcend) ourselves everyday with our conscious ability. I can imagine you sitting at your computer reading the posts, but my body sits here in BC (a much more firendly climate, from what I've been hearing - how's the snow?). Transcend does not mean some sort of star trekian "beam me up, scotty" type thing. Our consciousness makes it possible for us to mentally travel to distant places, etc. The brain may be the tool we use to travel to these places, but thoughts are real too.
                                  Lorna

                                  yeoman <yeoman@...> wrote:Obviously, we cant actually go beyond
                                  ourselves, as we are stuck in these bodies we have.

                                  eduard

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "timm" <tmason@...>
                                  To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:50 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [existlist] Zarathustra


                                  > I really felt like I got a lot out of it. The desire to
                                  transcend
                                  > yourself constantly, to better yourself, and to cast off
                                  beliefs that we
                                  > don't need anymore. I could really relate to this
                                  alienated feeling that
                                  > most people seem to be guided by transparent rules and
                                  beliefs - much
                                  > harder to see through your own.
                                  >
                                  > I also think he's a really talented writer, especially
                                  this book.
                                  >
                                  > -timm


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                                • yeoman
                                  Lorna, ... conscious ability. I can imagine you sitting at your computer reading the posts, but my body sits here in BC (a much more firendly climate, from
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 5, 2003
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                                    Lorna,

                                    > We go beyond (transcend) ourselves everyday with our
                                    conscious ability. I can imagine you sitting at your
                                    computer reading the posts, but my body sits here in BC (a
                                    much more firendly climate, from what I've been hearing -
                                    how's the snow?). Transcend does not mean some sort of star
                                    trekian "beam me up, scotty" type thing. Our consciousness
                                    makes it possible for us to mentally travel to distant
                                    places, etc. The brain may be the tool we use to travel to
                                    these places, but thoughts are real too.

                                    ---> I wholly agree with you on this. Thoughts are very
                                    real. And yes I do project beyond myself. Especially
                                    today. We have only gotten perhaps 2" of snow today, but it
                                    is far from the sort of thing you would have seen in a
                                    Hollywood movie. Where the highway has patches of snow
                                    cover, you cant get much traction and then in the open areas
                                    there is black ice. I only drove the short distance to the
                                    depanneur to get my newspaper, and i am still shaking from
                                    the experience.

                                    I am projecting my thoughts. I see Lotusland. I see a sign
                                    that Lorna has put up --- Room for rent. I see myself
                                    enjoying the flowers and warm breezes from the Pacific ...
                                    :-))

                                    eduard
                                  • Lorna Landry
                                    I just wore myself out trying to get the damn lawn mower going! I m exhausted and my arms are killing me from yanking on that thing! Does gas go bad sitting in
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 5, 2003
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                                      I just wore myself out trying to get the damn lawn mower going! I'm exhausted and my arms are killing me from yanking on that thing! Does gas go bad sitting in a jerry can over the winter!! Geez. If you can get the thing goin', come on out!
                                      Lorna

                                      yeoman <yeoman@...> wrote:Lorna,

                                      > We go beyond (transcend) ourselves everyday with our
                                      conscious ability. I can imagine you sitting at your
                                      computer reading the posts, but my body sits here in BC (a
                                      much more firendly climate, from what I've been hearing -
                                      how's the snow?). Transcend does not mean some sort of star
                                      trekian "beam me up, scotty" type thing. Our consciousness
                                      makes it possible for us to mentally travel to distant
                                      places, etc. The brain may be the tool we use to travel to
                                      these places, but thoughts are real too.

                                      ---> I wholly agree with you on this. Thoughts are very
                                      real. And yes I do project beyond myself. Especially
                                      today. We have only gotten perhaps 2" of snow today, but it
                                      is far from the sort of thing you would have seen in a
                                      Hollywood movie. Where the highway has patches of snow
                                      cover, you cant get much traction and then in the open areas
                                      there is black ice. I only drove the short distance to the
                                      depanneur to get my newspaper, and i am still shaking from
                                      the experience.

                                      I am projecting my thoughts. I see Lotusland. I see a sign
                                      that Lorna has put up --- Room for rent. I see myself
                                      enjoying the flowers and warm breezes from the Pacific ...
                                      :-))

                                      eduard


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                                    • yeoman
                                      Lorna, As a thing to remember for next year ... You can buy a bottle of gas stabilizer so that the potency of gasoline is maintained through the winter. You
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Apr 5, 2003
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                                        Lorna,

                                        As a thing to remember for next year ...

                                        You can buy a bottle of gas stabilizer so that the potency
                                        of gasoline is maintained through the winter. You can buy
                                        it at Canadian Tire. Look in the section for oil and gas
                                        additives.

                                        Of course this is one of those "do as I say, not as I do".
                                        My lawn tractor wont start. The thing is that you have to
                                        put the stabilizer in at the start of winter, not in the
                                        spring ... :-))

                                        eduard

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Lorna Landry" <lornalandry@...>
                                        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 3:21 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [existlist] Old Gas??


                                        >
                                        > I just wore myself out trying to get the damn lawn mower
                                        going! I'm exhausted and my arms are killing me from yanking
                                        on that thing! Does gas go bad sitting in a jerry can over
                                        the winter!! Geez. If you can get the thing goin', come on
                                        out!
                                        > Lorna
                                      • Lorna Landry
                                        Eduard, oops...oh well, it s raining now anyway, so the ever-growing-lawn-getting-much-too- long will have to wait! The problem is, the neighbors are all
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Apr 5, 2003
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                                          Eduard,
                                          oops...oh well, it's raining now anyway, so the ever-growing-lawn-getting-much-too- long will have to wait! The problem is, the neighbors are all retired old guys with golf greens for lawns. We're quickly beoming the unkempt neighbors around here! Thanks for the advice - thank god its spring!
                                          Lorna

                                          yeoman <yeoman@...> wrote:Lorna,

                                          As a thing to remember for next year ...

                                          You can buy a bottle of gas stabilizer so that the potency
                                          of gasoline is maintained through the winter. You can buy
                                          it at Canadian Tire. Look in the section for oil and gas
                                          additives.

                                          Of course this is one of those "do as I say, not as I do".
                                          My lawn tractor wont start. The thing is that you have to
                                          put the stabilizer in at the start of winter, not in the
                                          spring ... :-))

                                          eduard

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Lorna Landry" <lornalandry@...>
                                          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 3:21 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [existlist] Old Gas??


                                          >
                                          > I just wore myself out trying to get the damn lawn mower
                                          going! I'm exhausted and my arms are killing me from yanking
                                          on that thing! Does gas go bad sitting in a jerry can over
                                          the winter!! Geez. If you can get the thing goin', come on
                                          out!
                                          > Lorna


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