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Fw: [existlist] moving on 2

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  • Sue McPherson
    You re out of line, Shari. Sue McPherson ... From: shari hyder To: Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:15 PM
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 30 3:29 AM
      You're out of line, Shari.

      Sue McPherson


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "shari hyder" <hydersjmj@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:15 PM
      Subject: RE: [existlist] moving on 2


      Eduard, Sue,

      Kindly refrain from discussing this "issue" as it is counter-productive
      to the Group as a whole. If you must, do it off-list, or take up your
      grievances with Chris.

      Second Moderator,
      shari

      -----Original Message-----
      From: yeoman [mailto:yeoman@...]
      Sent: Sunday, 30 March 2003 9:02 p.m.
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [existlist] Zealotinous Twig

      Sue,

      The comment was made by Fictional Character [bookdoc].
      Perhaps you are not aware of his particular manner of
      inserting himself in discussion. He is very much like Mark.
      Albeit Mark did provide some thoughtful input, bookdoc has
      yet to provide anything ... at least since I have known him
      since April 2001. You see, bookdoc believes in nothing --
      it is more than a word, it is a philosophy. Whereas both
      Mark and bookdoc have libraries, the one that bookdoc has is
      just empty shelves.

      By the way, what is your basis for saying that my possible
      role as 2nd moderator would have been "intolerable"??
      Perhaps my insistence for obtaining answers has been a
      reflection of people not providing answers.

      You still have not answered my three emails on the whether
      you found the comments by Mark as either acceptable or not
      acceptable.

      eduard


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Sue McPherson" <sue@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 3:43 AM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] Zealotinous Twig


      > Fictional is critical of the recent attempt to choose a
      > secondary moderator. Maybe it is crazy to think that
      > direction from an elected moderator could lead to the
      > greater good, but this situation was a bit more
      > complicated than that.
      >
      > If you remember, list members were asked to choose a
      > secondary moderator. We talked amongst ourseleves
      > whether this was really necessary - I don't remember
      > if you contributed at the time to the discussion. Eduard
      > decided to run for post as moderator 2, which left no
      > choice but for someone to oppose him. Although I had
      > been in favour of not having a secondary moderator at all,
      > I felt it necessary to run for the position with the aim
      that
      > eduard would not get voted in, which if it had happened,
      > would to me - and to others apparently - have been
      > intolerable.
      >
      > As the election was drawing to a conclusion (which
      > would have been tomorrow), the moderator decided to
      > change the rules. Chris scrapped the election and
      > appointed a second moderator of his own choosing who
      > had had virtually nothing of significance to say during
      the
      > time the voting was going on. He then appointed me as
      > third moderator. I sent a letter to the list and to Chris
      > declining this position.
      >
      > I don't like to hear the kind of criticism you made, such
      as
      > in the following quote, as it reflects no comprehension of
      > the actual circumstances under which this farce took
      place.
      > I had thought I was doing something useful, and now you
      > turn it around to appear otherwise. You say:
      > > My observation is that the only people worth voting for
      > > would be those that don't want the postition and hence
      > > have no ageenda to apply to it, then once elected they
      will
      > > fail to acknowledge or perform. One could only hope.
      >
      > I'm not sure who you direct your last paragraph towards,
      in
      > your meage below. I wonder, is that what you* want, to
      > head up your own litle group, to have your own views seen
      > as the same as 'god's', since you seem to have simply made
      up
      > your own version of what has happened here recently,
      >
      > You can poke fun at all this, but it was an attempt by the
      > moderator to end antagonism between particular list
      > members. It may have accomplished that, in the same way
      > that President Bush is attempting to put an end to
      hostility
      > and conflict. But does the use of such authoritarian
      tactics
      > really lead to anything better? Do people really feel
      happy
      > about the way that it ended.
      >
      > Sue McPherson





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    • Tom Hickcox
      Sue, she is just doing her job as second moderator. Tommy
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 30 9:01 AM
        Sue, she is just doing her job as second moderator.

        Tommy

        At 05:29 3/30/03, Sue McPherson wrote:
        >You're out of line, Shari.
        >
        >Sue McPherson
        >
        >
        >----- Original Message -----
        >From: "shari hyder" <hydersjmj@...>
        >To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        >Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:15 PM
        >Subject: RE: [existlist] moving on 2
        >
        >
        >Eduard, Sue,
        >
        >Kindly refrain from discussing this "issue" as it is counter-productive
        >to the Group as a whole. If you must, do it off-list, or take up your
        >grievances with Chris.
        >
        >Second Moderator,
        >shari
        >
      • Sue McPherson
        If this is counterproductive, what about the one Chris just sent to the list Sue McPherson ... From: Sue McPherson To:
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 1, 2003
          If this is counterproductive, what about the one
          Chris just sent to the list

          Sue McPherson


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Sue McPherson" <sue@...>
          To: "Exist List Moderator" <existlist1@...>
          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 12:45 PM
          Subject: Fw: [existlist] moving on 2


          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "shari hyder" <hydersjmj@...>
          > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:15 PM
          > Subject: RE: [existlist] moving on 2
          >
          >
          > Eduard, Sue,
          >
          > Kindly refrain from discussing this "issue" as it is counter-productive
          > to the Group as a whole. If you must, do it off-list, or take up your
          > grievances with Chris.
          >
          > Second Moderator,
          > shari
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: yeoman [mailto:yeoman@...]
          > Sent: Sunday, 30 March 2003 9:02 p.m.
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [existlist] Zealotinous Twig
          >
          > Sue,
          >
          > The comment was made by Fictional Character [bookdoc].
          > Perhaps you are not aware of his particular manner of
          > inserting himself in discussion. He is very much like Mark.
          > Albeit Mark did provide some thoughtful input, bookdoc has
          > yet to provide anything ... at least since I have known him
          > since April 2001. You see, bookdoc believes in nothing --
          > it is more than a word, it is a philosophy. Whereas both
          > Mark and bookdoc have libraries, the one that bookdoc has is
          > just empty shelves.
          >
          > By the way, what is your basis for saying that my possible
          > role as 2nd moderator would have been "intolerable"??
          > Perhaps my insistence for obtaining answers has been a
          > reflection of people not providing answers.
          >
          > You still have not answered my three emails on the whether
          > you found the comments by Mark as either acceptable or not
          > acceptable.
          >
          > eduard
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Sue McPherson" <sue@...>
          > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 3:43 AM
          > Subject: Re: [existlist] Zealotinous Twig
          >
          >
          > > Fictional is critical of the recent attempt to choose a
          > > secondary moderator. Maybe it is crazy to think that
          > > direction from an elected moderator could lead to the
          > > greater good, but this situation was a bit more
          > > complicated than that.
          > >
          > > If you remember, list members were asked to choose a
          > > secondary moderator. We talked amongst ourseleves
          > > whether this was really necessary - I don't remember
          > > if you contributed at the time to the discussion. Eduard
          > > decided to run for post as moderator 2, which left no
          > > choice but for someone to oppose him. Although I had
          > > been in favour of not having a secondary moderator at all,
          > > I felt it necessary to run for the position with the aim
          > that
          > > eduard would not get voted in, which if it had happened,
          > > would to me - and to others apparently - have been
          > > intolerable.
          > >
          > > As the election was drawing to a conclusion (which
          > > would have been tomorrow), the moderator decided to
          > > change the rules. Chris scrapped the election and
          > > appointed a second moderator of his own choosing who
          > > had had virtually nothing of significance to say during
          > the
          > > time the voting was going on. He then appointed me as
          > > third moderator. I sent a letter to the list and to Chris
          > > declining this position.
          > >
          > > I don't like to hear the kind of criticism you made, such
          > as
          > > in the following quote, as it reflects no comprehension of
          > > the actual circumstances under which this farce took
          > place.
          > > I had thought I was doing something useful, and now you
          > > turn it around to appear otherwise. You say:
          > > > My observation is that the only people worth voting for
          > > > would be those that don't want the postition and hence
          > > > have no ageenda to apply to it, then once elected they
          > will
          > > > fail to acknowledge or perform. One could only hope.
          > >
          > > I'm not sure who you direct your last paragraph towards,
          > in
          > > your meage below. I wonder, is that what you* want, to
          > > head up your own litle group, to have your own views seen
          > > as the same as 'god's', since you seem to have simply made
          > up
          > > your own version of what has happened here recently,
          > >
          > > You can poke fun at all this, but it was an attempt by the
          > > moderator to end antagonism between particular list
          > > members. It may have accomplished that, in the same way
          > > that President Bush is attempting to put an end to
          > hostility
          > > and conflict. But does the use of such authoritarian
          > tactics
          > > really lead to anything better? Do people really feel
          > happy
          > > about the way that it ended.
          > >
          > > Sue McPherson
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          > xistlist
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          >
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          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
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          >
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          >
          >
          >
          >
        • poetcsw
          ... I agree. My anger at being insulted should not be posted to the group -- but if someone disliked me so intensely, then he/she/they should just ignore me as
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 1, 2003
            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sue McPherson" <sue@m...> wrote:
            > If this is counterproductive, what about the one
            > Chris just sent to the list
            >
            > Sue McPherson

            I agree. My anger at being insulted should not be posted to the
            group -- but if someone disliked me so intensely, then he/she/they
            should just ignore me as well.

            It's a shame that a list supposedly dedicated to existentialism --
            Personal Responsibility, Consequences, Self-Definition -- has been
            dominated for two months by this nonsense.

            I allowed myself to be dragged into what should not even exist on
            this list. My inability to ignore the attacks on myself reflects my
            current anger, for which I am responsible.

            If you do not like someone, ignore him or her. That's the power of
            the Internet at work.

            Existentialism and phenomenology were and are about personal
            perceptions and reactions to the absurdity of life. Life is pretty
            absurd at the moment.

            For those not clear on the Moderator nonsense -- the moderators all
            have equal access to the tools on Yahoo. No one moderator is better
            or superior to the others. That's how the system works. I could make
            everyone moderators -- it would only mean you could delete messages
            from the database and warn people.

            Why I devolved into this situation is beyond me.

            Maybe I should up the dosages of my meds and sleep more. What a silly
            waste of bandwidth I've allowed.

            Insulted, I tend to be defensive and I tend to reply. I'm sick of "so
            and so said you were..." games.

            If you don't like me, tough. I'm not much of a threat to anyone. I
            tend to think most people here want to learn, create, and discover.

            So I blew it. A year or two ago, when someone told me, "stick a gun
            in your mouth and blow your head off," I assumed that was about as
            silly as this gets. That person could simply have left the newslist
            and ignored us all.

            Existentialism is about defining yourself, while undertanding you
            still exist among others.

            Lately, I'm sure I've looked like a confused and lost soul trying to
            understand this place. All I know is two men started arguing about
            some silly word or phrase and I was bombarded with people leaving the
            group angrily.

            I hoped the group would self-regulate, suggest there was NO NEED for
            a moderator, and return to normal. Didn't happen.

            Ponder how we all look to each other.

            We are all frustrated, rambling, and angry at 1000 things. Why? Is it
            really this list or are there other reasons for the anger?

            What and who are we anymore?

            I'm trying to understand why so many people hate each other or find
            each other annoying on this group now.

            What happened? Why did it become necessary to insult each other? What
            is the cost of this anger?

            Existentialism: You are your choices.
            Phenomenology: Your experiences are your reality.

            Explore why people don't like each other... and what we have each
            done to anger the list.

            Myself -- I should have turned the list over to someone else two
            years ago. It seems to need a strong, steady leader.

            - CSW
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