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Re: [existlist] Women, home and work ( MARK What really matters )

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  • Bill Harris
    Lorna, In a way we are all disguised for much of the time but then a fly still has wings and a sheep wool. One strength of this media is it`s relative
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 28, 2003
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      Lorna, In a way we are all disguised for much of the time but then a fly
      still has wings and a sheep wool. One strength of this media is it`s
      relative anaminity. I suppose the role of christian existentialist would
      be quite black. Since such an agent would have nothing new to say and
      would have neutralized any cogent ideas by intermingling vastly different
      systems, he could slip by in a lighter shade of pale.
      It`s a great idea, I just not that good an actor. Bill
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Lorna Landry" <lornalandry@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:34 PM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] Women, home and work ( MARK What really matters )


      >
      > Why don't you disquise yourself as a Christian Existentialist! No one will
      know it's you, Bill!
      > Lorna
      >
      > Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:Abbas, If I had a fast
      internet hook up and an indoor shooting range I
      > might be able to stay home for short time spans. Otherwise I would be
      > shooting holes in the frigerator. I plan to travel but if Bush keeps
      this
      > war shit up I may have to go in disguise. Any ideas. Bill
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Abbas, Misam" <misam.abbas@...>
      > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:04 PM
      > Subject: RE: [existlist] Women, home and work ( MARK What really matters )
      >
      >
      > > It is interesting to note that the soft option of staying at home is
      more
      > available to women(I call staying at home a soft option, becuase starting
      to
      > work is an effort , making a resume, going for interviews, getting a job
      ..
      > so sheer inertia can make us continue to stay at home if we are given the
      > option).A man is often more subject to societal ridicule and inability to
      > find/retain a companion of the opposite sex if he doesn't work.
      > > It is this reason, among others of course, why some women still prefer
      to
      > stay at home. I can empathize with Lorna though, I would like to quit my
      job
      > and stay at home, cook food , write a book , and mostly do nothing
      > (nothing.. quite accurately describes what I do in office though !) though
      I
      > haven't faced sexism.
      > > So its possibly the availability of an easier option (or what seems
      > easier) that tempts some women to quit work and go back to staying at home
      > .. ahhh , I wish I had that option, and actually I might if I can improve
      my
      > culinary skills just that little bit .
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Sue McPherson [mailto:sue@...]
      > > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 1:50 PM
      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Women, home and work ( MARK What really matters
      > > )
      > >
      > >
      > > But isn't this the very problem? Women used to accept their place in
      the
      > > home, and being subordinate, as natural. Now women want equality with
      > men -
      > > and that means they expect - or desire - to be in control of their
      > > environment - to be king of the castle. Yes, I do think women at home
      > > probably do feel this way too, and actually women always have had
      control
      > > over the home, to some extent. It's just that, if that ends, homemaking
      > > doesn't provide much basis for starting a new career. This is my
      research
      > > area, by the way, as it relates to menopause.
      > >
      > > Sue McPherson
      > >
      > > Lorna wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Misam,
      > > >
      > > > Nice to see we are still getting new members in here - welcome to the
      > > group. I think working outside the home as well as inside both directly
      > > influence and have an affect on the nature of the society we live in.
      The
      > > problem seems to be that we place less value on the woman (or either
      > parent,
      > > for that matter) who stays at home to make a home, when in reality, this
      > > seems to be an essential element of a healthy family existence. We
      value
      > > those who work over those that do not because we (at least where I live)
      > are
      > > a society driven by money and its endless acquisition.
      > > >
      > > > If we can somehow change this direction that capitalist society has
      > taken
      > > (I don't know...maybe with some sort of more grass-roots approach) then
      > > perhaps the nurturer (be it the man or the woman) will be more
      recognized
      > as
      > > an essential part of existence.
      > > >
      > > > Although the differences in the images of those who work and those who
      > do
      > > not is very apparent, so too, the working woman still has it difficult
      as
      > > well. She's got a job, but much like her stay-at-home counterpart, she
      too
      > > is subjected to sexism in the wrokplace. I think I would like to be the
      > > 'king of my own castle' one day, as I'm sure many women who stay home
      feel
      > > this way (provided I have enough money to be comfortable, and that isn't
      > > going to happen any time soon!)
      > > >
      > > > Lorna
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > "Abbas, Misam" <misam.abbas@...> wrote:I am new to the
      group
      > > so please accept my apologies in advance if I stray from the point. But
      > > existensialism and feminism are my personal favorites and I could not
      help
      > > jumping in.
      > > > Everybody must have heard about "The Second Sex" by Simone de
      Beauviour
      > (I
      > > never could spell this!). It is quite a read , and for some time it was
      to
      > > me the bible on feminism .
      > > > I read an argument which said that a woman who lives at home and takes
      > > care of the house, contributes to the world only indirectly , because
      she
      > > takes care of her husband and her husband contributes to the world, and
      > > hence she is always unfulfilled. Initially I found this quite convincing
      > and
      > > quickly became an advocate of all women working.
      > > > I went on to give it further credance by saying that if you make half
      > your
      > > population 'unproductive' by confining them to home, development will be
      > > hampered.(In India, where I come from , it is still quite common for
      women
      > > to be homemakers , though the trend is changing).
      > > > It is this very attitude,which I had, gives rise to this looking down
      on
      > > housework. I have found it very common in working women in India, they
      > tend
      > > to look down on women who are 'mere' homemakers.
      > > > On the other hand, the patriarchs in India, who don't want women to
      > work,
      > > try to glorify housework to a woman's face( while maintaining a smug
      sense
      > > of superiority).
      > > > So it was a strange situation , a patricarch trying to justify not
      > letting
      > > his wife work outside, was glorifying house work. And I, an amateur
      > feminist
      > > was saying derogatory things about house work.
      > > > Of course I no longer hold that position.
      > > > The solution that I can think of is that just as working in the
      office
      > is
      > > no longer a domain of men alone; housework , caring which is still in a
      > > woman's domain , should not be hers alone, but men should participate
      > > equally in this.
      > > > So a woman should not be expected to "care" just because she is a
      woman,
      > > and she should be appreciated when she does (which is the same thing
      said
      > > twice)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Sue McPherson [mailto:sue@...]
      > > > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 2:04 AM
      > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] MARK What really matters (existentialism)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Mark wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I can only speak from my own experience.
      > > > >
      > > > > One of the first things a male asks of another male is their
      > occupation
      > > so
      > > > that the other may be put in the correct hierarchical position. Hence
      > the
      > > > female who does not a have a position in the workplace is seen as
      > inferior
      > > > by males. Women's caring is devalued and often expected by males as a
      > > > 'given' without thanks.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Then you haven't actually studied this subject - 'women,
      > > > home and work' ? But you do say you are speaking from
      > > > your own experience? So does that mean you yourself
      > > > look upon women who do not have a position in the
      > > > workplace as being inferior?
      > > >
      > > > The entire situation is more complicated than your meagre
      > > > insights suggest. There has been a huge amount of research
      > > > on this topic - one of the earliest was Betty Friedan's (1963)
      > > > "The Feminine Mystique" (now rather outdated), but you
      > > > don't seem too interested in learning more about it.
      > > >
      > > > Sue McPherson
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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