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Re: [existlist] patriarchy

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  • David Leon
    Bill, I ll try to be short instead. If business is an extension of war, then am I at war with you? Is that now what you are necessarily saying? Like, it may be
    Message 1 of 92 , Mar 1, 2003
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      Bill,

      I'll try to be short instead.
      If business is an extension of war, then am I at war with you? Is that now
      what you are necessarily saying? Like, it may be possible for me to hide my
      war deceptively, supposedly - I might think that I am doing so, but in
      reality if I lay down arms, and let myself starve if there is only enough
      food for one of the two of us, then I am really doing it for some more
      complicated reason or cause that is still from warring? Yes? Because you
      cannot (logically) say that this warring is in my nature, in our nature, and
      yet no, I am just a freak who thinks differently from "the rest" or even
      from "the fittest". Because then nature has been broken...it never really
      was my nature. No? I mean, really. Am I wrong. This is my logically
      reasoning through that, simply. Is that wrong? I dont think so. I think
      you'd have to complicate it or be confused about its simplicity to think
      that I am fundamentally wrong. Because if I am really a screwy version of
      war, all the time, then that's what I am. If I am a malfunction of that,
      then I am not that, but never was, so how then would you hold up that we are
      really at war all the time? And that is all flowing out of the thought that
      "business", which then must mean generally, always, is an extension or fake
      peaceful facade of that warring.

      Dave


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Bill Harris" <valleywestdental@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 7:56 AM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] patriarchy


      > Lorna, I am not idealistic nor do I think society to be perfectible. I
      > consider business to be an extension of war by other means, and war takes
      us
      > back to our close roots in the jungle. Very seldom are most things in
      > abundance for all , so we are left to compete for what is available.
      > Business substitutes work for the violence of war but work itself is
      > "Nasty" and "Brutish". Bill
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Lorna Landry" <lornalandry@...>
      > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 9:43 AM
      > Subject: Re: [existlist] patriarchy
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Bill,
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > How very Hobbsian of you, I think! Do you think we 'tame' ourselves by
      > self-imposing society? It seems a bleak outlook. The only way to crawl out
      > from underneath the 'nasty, brutish, and short' life of the masses is
      > through making lots of money? Bill! There MUST be more to life than this!
      I
      > liked the bit about the 'bureaucratic horseshit" - isn't that like saying
      > the same thing twice?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Lorna
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:Eduard As you have
      pointed
      > out we derive a great deal from industrial
      > > society and there is not much chance we will be experiencing much change
      > > from this general mode. No matter how much bureaucratic horseshit is
      > > interspersed, humans and their hierarchies are still in charge.
      > > A man with a hard street face still gets respect in the general
      > population.
      > > If it sounds as if I am using prison metaphor, it is intentional. I
      > have
      > > always thought society to be a prison of our own choice. The only
      > > survivable disengagement is gained through the accumulation of wealth.
      > The
      > > man with the gold can make more of his own rules. Bill
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "eduard" <yeoman@...>
      > > To: "ExistList" <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:18 PM
      > > Subject: [existlist] patriarchy
      > >
      > >
      > > > The following is a paragraph out of Bly's "Iron John"
      > > >
      > > > "The genuine patriarchy brings down the sun through the Sacred King,
      > into
      > > every man and woman in the culture; and the genuine matriarchy brings
      down
      > > the moon through the Sacred Queen, to every man and woman in the
      culture.
      > > The death of the Sacred King and Queen means that we live now in a
      system
      > of
      > > industrial domination., which is not patriarchy. The system that we
      live
      > in
      > > gives no honor to the male mode of feeling nor to the female mode of
      > > feeling. The system of industrial domination determines how things go
      > with
      > > us in the world of resources, values, and allegiances; what animals live
      > and
      > > what animals die; how children are treated. And in the mode of
      industrial
      > > domination, there is neither king nor queen."
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > eduard
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
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    • Sue McPherson
      Thanks. I have sent two book reviews off to Amazon. Craib s Importance of Disappointment, and Hamer s A New Perspective on Incest. They have both been
      Message 92 of 92 , Mar 4, 2003
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        Thanks. I have sent two book reviews off to Amazon.
        Craib's Importance of Disappointment, and Hamer's
        A New Perspective on Incest. They have both been
        accepted by Amazon in Canada and in the US now, but
        neither one in the UK (one is still in process but I have
        doubts).

        Even de Beauvoir had a man. Without one, it is
        difficult to get accepted - and published. People live
        different kinds of lives. It is difficult to compare, or
        even to understand some experiences others have. Like
        mine. I am so very tired of all this.

        Sue McPherson




        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Mark Tindall" <mbtin@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:48 PM
        Subject: Re: [existlist] patriarchy


        > Sue wrote:
        >
        > > I like discussing gender and aging, and women's lives, and
        > > self-development, and sexuality.
        >
        > These are much more relevant to existentialism than Noo. I read all your
        > posts. The book review was great. More such items are needed on this
        list.
        >
        > You have passion which is much needed by many people. We live in a
        > passionless age. Passion is choice in action. Van Gogh inspires me. I
        > have several prints of his around my home. Very few were interested in
        his
        > work while he was alive. His best friend, Paul Gauguin, thought his work
        > was abysmal. He outshone them all.
        >
        >
        > > I have no future.
        >
        > Neither does Noo. ;-) But you have being and choice before you. Don't
        give
        > up. Harness the passion.
        >
        > 'WWSdBD?' - 'What Would Simone de Beauvoir Do?'
        >
        >
        >
        > Mark
        >
        >
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        >
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