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Re: Please read and Follow your heart

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  • Fictional Character
    When idiots have societies and groups with causes that are greater than the individual it is exactly these things that bring about the altercation, violence
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 2, 2002
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      When idiots have societies and groups with causes that are
      "greater than the individual" it is exactly these things that bring
      about the altercation, violence and mass destruction.

      Following my interest, I have no interest in a grouping...a bad
      one or one that might come under the guise of 'goodness' which
      one would need to define for me anyway. More dangerous than a
      single 'Duard with a loud mouth and stupid opinions are
      groups...of any sort.

      If you want to do good as a group, go find and join with Al Qaida,
      and ruin the 'purity' of their rank and file by not wanting to be part
      of the group you are in.

      Fedup Myheart
      -----------------------------
    • Dani Moss
      Actually, we have been signing petitions since Feb,,,at the first whispers of this war. And we have held many peace rallies. There will be a HUGE rally in DC
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 3, 2002
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        Actually, we have been signing petitions since Feb,,,at the first whispers
        of this war. And we have held many peace rallies. There will be a HUGE rally
        in DC and SF the 18 and 19th of Jan...where have you guys been? People have
        been fighting toth and nail to stop this all along. Do you not read the
        news? Are you unware that the unelected shrub took away mostof your rights
        with the passing of the Patroit Act and took away the rest with the passing
        of the Homeland Securty Bill? Perhaps if people like you realized you do
        have a voice and used it that bill wouldn't have been passed...it was only
        pased by 6 votes...Many people are working hard to put an end to this.
        Yes, that one petition did sound emotional, but mist don't. We need mor e
        people involved and if shrub can play on people's fear in order to paralyze
        them for stopping him, we can pull on people's hearts strings in order to
        cause them to act.
        As far as all the injustices done to women on thrid world countries, us
        women are much more aware of that than most men and have been fighting that
        for a long time. All the proceeds for the Lilith concerts go to fight that
        as do all them from the Vagina Miniloges and many many other groups of women
        supporting women through out the world.
        We are trying to bring about knowledge and respect for other cultures, hence
        peace, not more blood shed.
        Dani

        -------Original Message-------

        From: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, December 02, 2002 04:28:35 PM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart

        Eduard, It would seem these women are emotionally involved with what is a
        political issue. At some threshold level the moralistic juices kick in and
        it is assumed we should all run along with the melee.
        I agree with their conclusion but for very different reasons. I would not
        join their cause because it is too late to change Bush`s mind and too early
        to use this issue to be rid of him. Vladimir Putin will have more to say
        about Bush`s choices of peace or war. Petitions are too late and it is
        too early to go to the streets. I hope cooler heads like Vladimir prevail.
        Bill
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: eduard
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:05 PM
        Subject: RE: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


        Dani,

        Where were these women when Saddam gassed the tribes in the north of
        Iran?? Where were these women when the Taliban was shooting women in
        that soccer stadium?? Where were these women when those Saudi girls
        were allowed to burn to death, rather than to have them exposed to the
        public without their veils?? etc. etc. I get the feeling that this
        walk-out has more to do with getting their 15 minutes of fame than
        doing anything productive.

        eduard

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Dani Moss [mailto:angelwoman@...]
        Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:48 AM
        To: DaniMoss333@...
        Subject: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


        Women United Against War

        [snip]


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      • eduard
        Dani,
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 3, 2002
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          Dani,

          <<<< As far as all the injustices done to women on thrid world
          countries, us
          women are much more aware of that than most men and have been fighting
          that
          for a long time. All the proceeds for the Lilith concerts go to fight
          that
          as do all them from the Vagina Miniloges and many many other groups of
          women
          supporting women through out the world. >>>>>

          If you were more aware of the injustices, then where were the protests
          against Saddam?? I still think that it is easy to protest against the
          war and the Bush administration because it is easy and you can make
          the evening news. Walking out congress does not help anyone.

          eduard
        • Bill Harris
          Bookdoc, I think each of us carries the greed toxin. When we band together some sort of multiplier effect comes into play. The lust to power and status
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 3, 2002
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            Bookdoc, I think each of us carries the greed toxin. When we band together some sort of multiplier effect comes into play. The lust to power and status obliterates the original interest, goals are lost and the struggle over the carcass ensues. It all emanates from that seminal survival instinct. It seems to permeate all cellular life forms, both flora and fauna. With enough space and opportunity we can avoid the greater part of interspecies entanglements.
            You consciously limit group activity. That is one answer that I also use. I have no social life and try to limit my group associations to strictly ruled encounters. If I agree to the rules I will stick to my bargain, I expect the same of my fellows. The law, prior agreement, is the only framework in which we can interact without chaos. Good will and morals go by the by once the greed toxin inoculates a situation.
            Survival is not fun unless you take the attitude of a scrotum dragging, I must win tyrant. I find no interest in such a life. Society is a collaboration I try to minimize my involvement with. I probably draw the line at greater circumference than you do, but then that is a matter of personal interest and risk assessment. Bill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Fictional Character
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:01 PM
            Subject: [existlist] Re: Please read and Follow your heart


            When idiots have societies and groups with causes that are
            "greater than the individual" it is exactly these things that bring
            about the altercation, violence and mass destruction.

            Following my interest, I have no interest in a grouping...a bad
            one or one that might come under the guise of 'goodness' which
            one would need to define for me anyway. More dangerous than a
            single 'Duard with a loud mouth and stupid opinions are
            groups...of any sort.

            If you want to do good as a group, go find and join with Al Qaida,
            and ruin the 'purity' of their rank and file by not wanting to be part
            of the group you are in.

            Fedup Myheart
            -----------------------------


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          • Bill Harris
            ... From: Bill Harris To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Please read and Follow your heart
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 4, 2002
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Bill Harris
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:29 AM
              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Please read and Follow your heart


              Bookdoc, I think each of us carries the greed toxin. When we band together some sort of multiplier effect comes into play. The lust to power and status obliterates the original interest, goals are lost and the struggle over the carcass ensues. It all emanates from that seminal survival instinct. It seems to permeate all cellular life forms, both flora and fauna. With enough space and opportunity we can avoid the greater part of interspecies entanglements.
              You consciously limit group activity. That is one answer that I also use. I have no social life and try to limit my group associations to strictly ruled encounters. If I agree to the rules I will stick to my bargain, I expect the same of my fellows. The law, prior agreement, is the only framework in which we can interact without chaos. Good will and morals go by the by once the greed toxin inoculates a situation.
              Survival is not fun unless you take the attitude of a scrotum dragging, I must win tyrant. I find no interest in such a life. Society is a collaboration I try to minimize my involvement with. I probably draw the line at greater circumference than you do, but then that is a matter of personal interest and risk assessment. Bill
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Fictional Character
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:01 PM
              Subject: [existlist] Re: Please read and Follow your heart


              When idiots have societies and groups with causes that are
              "greater than the individual" it is exactly these things that bring
              about the altercation, violence and mass destruction.

              Following my interest, I have no interest in a grouping...a bad
              one or one that might come under the guise of 'goodness' which
              one would need to define for me anyway. More dangerous than a
              single 'Duard with a loud mouth and stupid opinions are
              groups...of any sort.

              If you want to do good as a group, go find and join with Al Qaida,
              and ruin the 'purity' of their rank and file by not wanting to be part
              of the group you are in.

              Fedup Myheart
              -----------------------------


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            • Fictional Character
              I don t mean to come
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 5, 2002
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                <<I probably draw the line at greater circumference than you do,
                but then that is a matter of personal interest and risk
                assessment. >>

                I don't mean to come off as a hermit, though I expect it doesn't
                matter. I don't, however, consider myself part of 'society' except in
                those cases where I am forced to participate or sacrifice other
                interest (schooling children, taxes, etc.). I used to fight these
                things...imagine the absurdity of 'authority'? Why one can lord it
                over another makes nonsense...except in the primal notation. I
                can attend 'social' events but fear I don't see them as more than
                a gathering of chance.

                If society were to be a tasty entity, it would be one that the
                constituents entered into willfully...and positively. And while there
                are nice thoughts there, theory will fail as constituents seek
                'advantage'. Regretfully, there is no reinforcement for those who
                seek to share their help...but then there are interesting new-ish
                behaviors that suggest there may be ways to share and be
                repaid (shareware?). However, the whole concept of value turns
                to greed and melts in the spotlight as if made of wax. The society
                is purist at its beginning...yet that beginning always fades.

                My only interest in society and social threory was an idea I had
                for Destructionism...a system which continually UNBUILT itself,
                rather than forming constituencies and such...but I couldn't come
                to a mechanism that would affect the dissemblance.

                Otter Creek
                ------------------------
              • Bill Harris
                Otter, Ah Hah, and thus your idea of joining Al Queda to corrupt it from within. You know it works but is a two edged sword. I just finished a tour with a
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 5, 2002
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                  Otter, Ah Hah, and thus your idea of joining Al Queda to corrupt it from within. You know it works but is a two edged sword. I just finished a tour with a group with a strict confidentuality rule. The fact I will not speak of specifics is proof of the duplicitous effects of such encounters. The members were radically different from me. I found I did not detest them personally but their ideas still are repulsive to me.
                  Withdrawal of interest is a powerful action. It seems to leave feelings of guilt in the abandoned. It seems a good vehicle for forcing introspection upon idealogue dullards. Bill
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Fictional Character
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:33 AM
                  Subject: [existlist] Re: Please read and Flop


                  <<I probably draw the line at greater circumference than you do,
                  but then that is a matter of personal interest and risk
                  assessment. >>

                  I don't mean to come off as a hermit, though I expect it doesn't
                  matter. I don't, however, consider myself part of 'society' except in
                  those cases where I am forced to participate or sacrifice other
                  interest (schooling children, taxes, etc.). I used to fight these
                  things...imagine the absurdity of 'authority'? Why one can lord it
                  over another makes nonsense...except in the primal notation. I
                  can attend 'social' events but fear I don't see them as more than
                  a gathering of chance.

                  If society were to be a tasty entity, it would be one that the
                  constituents entered into willfully...and positively. And while there
                  are nice thoughts there, theory will fail as constituents seek
                  'advantage'. Regretfully, there is no reinforcement for those who
                  seek to share their help...but then there are interesting new-ish
                  behaviors that suggest there may be ways to share and be
                  repaid (shareware?). However, the whole concept of value turns
                  to greed and melts in the spotlight as if made of wax. The society
                  is purist at its beginning...yet that beginning always fades.

                  My only interest in society and social threory was an idea I had
                  for Destructionism...a system which continually UNBUILT itself,
                  rather than forming constituencies and such...but I couldn't come
                  to a mechanism that would affect the dissemblance.

                  Otter Creek
                  ------------------------


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                • Fictional Character
                  Actually, no. Interesting connection, though. What I was thinking, more-or-less,
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 5, 2002
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                    <<Ah Hah, and thus your idea of joining Al Queda to corrupt it from
                    within.>>

                    Actually, no. Interesting connection, though.

                    What I was thinking, more-or-less, was that the actual setup of the
                    government would strip individuals of rights and powers as they
                    developed the rights and powers, so you'd never have stuff like
                    unlimited expense accounts. The mechanism would have to be chaotic,
                    so the individuals would never know when/if they were losing a power
                    or benefit or getting fired. Idea being, there would be a virtual
                    elimination of loopholes, as no one would have time to discover,
                    invent or endulge them...nor the will to bother with the effort.

                    Cracked Up
                    ----------
                  • Bill Harris
                    Cracked, Your idea is similar to the concept of the executive authority that has been undermined by civil service and the courts. Now a chief exex has a
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 5, 2002
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                      Cracked, Your idea is similar to the concept of the executive authority that has been undermined by civil service and the courts. Now a chief exex has a brief window after election to discard the terminally worthless. Soon it is back to business as usual. That sort of system seems to imply a great deal of personal will to authority. In small business we can still wield the ax but reputation of severity is a hard thing to shake.
                      Having a "system" that produces eternal revolution sounds like Marx. I think that behind it someone has to wear the black hat. Pay me enough and I`ll do it, just don`t erode my authority when I am in mid swing of the blade. Bill
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Fictional Character
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:28 AM
                      Subject: [existlist] Re: Please read and Flop 2


                      <<Ah Hah, and thus your idea of joining Al Queda to corrupt it from
                      within.>>

                      Actually, no. Interesting connection, though.

                      What I was thinking, more-or-less, was that the actual setup of the
                      government would strip individuals of rights and powers as they
                      developed the rights and powers, so you'd never have stuff like
                      unlimited expense accounts. The mechanism would have to be chaotic,
                      so the individuals would never know when/if they were losing a power
                      or benefit or getting fired. Idea being, there would be a virtual
                      elimination of loopholes, as no one would have time to discover,
                      invent or endulge them...nor the will to bother with the effort.

                      Cracked Up
                      ----------


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