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Please read and Follow your heart

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  • Dani Moss
    Women United Against War 25 Congresswomen in the US House of Representatives walked out -- and refused to participate in the vote to give Bush war powers ---
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 2, 2002
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      Women United Against War

      25 Congresswomen in the US House of Representatives walked out -- and
      refused to participate in the vote to give Bush war powers --- they were led
      by Barbara Bell of California and they took up residence on the White House
      lawn. They say women can change the world. Here is a chance! I am part of a
      nationwide effort to unite women against war. We have drafted a statement
      here and ask you, if you are so moved, to send it out to as many women and
      women's groups as you can for endorsement.


      If you are not part of a group/organization, you can also sign as an
      individual. If you feel so moved, please sign below, giving your or your
      organization's name and location.

      Then please cut and paste this message into a new message and forward on to
      as many people as you know.

      If you are the 50th, 100th, 150th, 200th, etc. person, please also e-mail a
      copy back to pramila@....

      This is our chance to stop this war. Women are a strong constituency in
      this country. We only have a few days. Please act immediately.

      Women United Against War
      As women embracing life and peace, we declare ourselves opposed to any
      military action against Iraq. As women, we have been the victims of many
      kinds of violence. We call on you, our Congress members, to oppose any
      military action.

      We make this demand for ourselves, our children, our parents, our brothers,
      husbands, partners and
      friends.

      We make this demand because we understand that warfare creates endless
      cycles of violence, destruction and death, impoverishing us spiritually and
      economically.

      We make this demand because warfare destroys family life, throwing whole
      communities into exile and turning children into orphans.

      We make this demand because we cannot build happy lives on a ground
      polluted by violence. We believe this is a defining moment in the life of
      our country. We will either take our place in the family of nations as
      seekers of peace and justice or we will start down a terrible road to war,
      unleashing the fury of generations to come on our land.

      We call upon you to act with integrity, to show courage and remember that
      you are guardians of the public trust and of the world we leave to our
      children.

      We oppose this war.

      We oppose all elected officials who support this war.

      There is no other issue greater than the cause of peace. No past stand or
      history can be called upon to
      overshadow the imperative to stand today for peace.

      We, as women acting to shape public life, dedicate our energy, resources,
      and hopes to those who establish peace.

      There will be no war in our names. If you want our support and votes, stop
      this war!
      Signed:

      1. Unreasonable Women for the Earth, Nationwide
      2. Pramila Jayapal, Seattle, WA
      3. Ginny NiCarthy, Seattle, WA
      4. Karen Bosley, Seattle, WA
      5. Janice Pickard, Coupeville, WA
      6. Margot E "Peg" Tennant, Coupeville WA
      7. Patty Carlisle, Seattle, WA
      8. Karen Jensen, Seattle, WA
      9. Frances Partridge, Seattle, WA
      10. Elizabeth Sanders, Seattle, WA
      11. Marjorie Huebner, MN
      12. Karolyn Redoutey, MN
      13. Jennifer Moore, MN
      14. Jacqueline Sterling, Minneapolis, MN
      15. Rorie Hanrahan, Santa Fe, NM
      16. Maggie Copeland, Glendive, MT
      17. Joan Gough, Moab, UT
      18. Eleanor Inskip, Salt Lake City, UT
      19. Meherban Kaur Khalsa, Salt Lake City, Ut
      20. Shakta Khalsa, Herndon, VA
      21. Anne V. Hilliard, Jacksonville, FL
      22. Ann McGill, Reston, VA
      23. Mary Elizabeth Thunder, West Point, Texas & Big Indian, NY
      24. Joy Walker, Palm Bay, Fl. 32909
      25. Christina Van Deusen, Waltham MA 02453
      26. Susan Cohen Thompson, Natick, MA 01760
      27. Mary Southard, La Grange Park, IL. 60526
      28. Macrina Wiederkehr, Fort Smith, AR 72903
      29. Janet Chawla, New Delhi India and San Francisco CA
      30. Jennifer Houston Catskill, N.Y 12414
      31. Carolyn Stapleton, Orlando, Florida, U.S.A.
      32. Di Silkwood, Winter Park, Florida 32803, USA
      33. Rosemary DuRocher, Orlando, FL 32812, USA
      34. Judy Douglas, Orlando, FL 32812 USA
      35. Carol Foglesong, Maitland, FL 32751
      36. Raven McElman, Maitland, FL 32751
      37. Ellen Soto, Miami Beach, FL 33141
      38. Terry Ellis, Boca Raton, Fl. 33432
      39. Carmen Roberts, New York, NY 10006
      40. Naomi Teppich, New York, NY 10006
      41. Elizabeth Bucar, Jeffersonville, NY 12748
      42. Sullivan Peace, Sullivan County NY
      43 Barbara Pontier, Lakeland, Florida
      44. Jane Eskenazi, Lakeland, Florida 33801
      45. Gay Finkelman, Lakeland, FL 33803
      46. Rev. Caroline Wood, Chapel Hill, NC 27516
      47. Barbara Janeway, Carrboro, NC 27510
      48. Lisa Neal, Pittsboro, NC
      49. Deborah Bird, Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
      50. Lila Suka, NC
      51. Johanna Hiitola, NC
      52. Jo Dee (Dani) Moss, Calhoun Falls, SC 29628

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • eduard
      Dani, Where were these women when Saddam gassed the tribes in the north of Iran?? Where were these women when the Taliban was shooting women in that soccer
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 2, 2002
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        Dani,

        Where were these women when Saddam gassed the tribes in the north of
        Iran?? Where were these women when the Taliban was shooting women in
        that soccer stadium?? Where were these women when those Saudi girls
        were allowed to burn to death, rather than to have them exposed to the
        public without their veils?? etc. etc. I get the feeling that this
        walk-out has more to do with getting their 15 minutes of fame than
        doing anything productive.

        eduard

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Dani Moss [mailto:angelwoman@...]
        Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:48 AM
        To: DaniMoss333@...
        Subject: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


        Women United Against War

        [snip]
      • Bill Harris
        Eduard, It would seem these women are emotionally involved with what is a political issue. At some threshold level the moralistic juices kick in and it is
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 2, 2002
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          Eduard, It would seem these women are emotionally involved with what is a political issue. At some threshold level the moralistic juices kick in and it is assumed we should all run along with the melee.
          I agree with their conclusion but for very different reasons. I would not join their cause because it is too late to change Bush`s mind and too early to use this issue to be rid of him. Vladimir Putin will have more to say about Bush`s choices of peace or war. Petitions are too late and it is too early to go to the streets. I hope cooler heads like Vladimir prevail. Bill
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: eduard
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:05 PM
          Subject: RE: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


          Dani,

          Where were these women when Saddam gassed the tribes in the north of
          Iran?? Where were these women when the Taliban was shooting women in
          that soccer stadium?? Where were these women when those Saudi girls
          were allowed to burn to death, rather than to have them exposed to the
          public without their veils?? etc. etc. I get the feeling that this
          walk-out has more to do with getting their 15 minutes of fame than
          doing anything productive.

          eduard

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Dani Moss [mailto:angelwoman@...]
          Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:48 AM
          To: DaniMoss333@...
          Subject: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


          Women United Against War

          [snip]


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Harris
          Eduard, I just finished a long text on sub atomic particles. Fascinating and philosophically relevant. Perhaps we can discuss in Nouism. Bill ... From: eduard
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 2, 2002
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            Eduard, I just finished a long text on sub atomic particles. Fascinating and philosophically relevant. Perhaps we can discuss in Nouism. Bill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: eduard
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:05 PM
            Subject: RE: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


            Dani,

            Where were these women when Saddam gassed the tribes in the north of
            Iran?? Where were these women when the Taliban was shooting women in
            that soccer stadium?? Where were these women when those Saudi girls
            were allowed to burn to death, rather than to have them exposed to the
            public without their veils?? etc. etc. I get the feeling that this
            walk-out has more to do with getting their 15 minutes of fame than
            doing anything productive.

            eduard

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Dani Moss [mailto:angelwoman@...]
            Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:48 AM
            To: DaniMoss333@...
            Subject: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


            Women United Against War

            [snip]


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Fictional Character
            When idiots have societies and groups with causes that are greater than the individual it is exactly these things that bring about the altercation, violence
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 2, 2002
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              When idiots have societies and groups with causes that are
              "greater than the individual" it is exactly these things that bring
              about the altercation, violence and mass destruction.

              Following my interest, I have no interest in a grouping...a bad
              one or one that might come under the guise of 'goodness' which
              one would need to define for me anyway. More dangerous than a
              single 'Duard with a loud mouth and stupid opinions are
              groups...of any sort.

              If you want to do good as a group, go find and join with Al Qaida,
              and ruin the 'purity' of their rank and file by not wanting to be part
              of the group you are in.

              Fedup Myheart
              -----------------------------
            • Dani Moss
              Actually, we have been signing petitions since Feb,,,at the first whispers of this war. And we have held many peace rallies. There will be a HUGE rally in DC
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 3, 2002
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                Actually, we have been signing petitions since Feb,,,at the first whispers
                of this war. And we have held many peace rallies. There will be a HUGE rally
                in DC and SF the 18 and 19th of Jan...where have you guys been? People have
                been fighting toth and nail to stop this all along. Do you not read the
                news? Are you unware that the unelected shrub took away mostof your rights
                with the passing of the Patroit Act and took away the rest with the passing
                of the Homeland Securty Bill? Perhaps if people like you realized you do
                have a voice and used it that bill wouldn't have been passed...it was only
                pased by 6 votes...Many people are working hard to put an end to this.
                Yes, that one petition did sound emotional, but mist don't. We need mor e
                people involved and if shrub can play on people's fear in order to paralyze
                them for stopping him, we can pull on people's hearts strings in order to
                cause them to act.
                As far as all the injustices done to women on thrid world countries, us
                women are much more aware of that than most men and have been fighting that
                for a long time. All the proceeds for the Lilith concerts go to fight that
                as do all them from the Vagina Miniloges and many many other groups of women
                supporting women through out the world.
                We are trying to bring about knowledge and respect for other cultures, hence
                peace, not more blood shed.
                Dani

                -------Original Message-------

                From: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, December 02, 2002 04:28:35 PM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart

                Eduard, It would seem these women are emotionally involved with what is a
                political issue. At some threshold level the moralistic juices kick in and
                it is assumed we should all run along with the melee.
                I agree with their conclusion but for very different reasons. I would not
                join their cause because it is too late to change Bush`s mind and too early
                to use this issue to be rid of him. Vladimir Putin will have more to say
                about Bush`s choices of peace or war. Petitions are too late and it is
                too early to go to the streets. I hope cooler heads like Vladimir prevail.
                Bill
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: eduard
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:05 PM
                Subject: RE: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


                Dani,

                Where were these women when Saddam gassed the tribes in the north of
                Iran?? Where were these women when the Taliban was shooting women in
                that soccer stadium?? Where were these women when those Saudi girls
                were allowed to burn to death, rather than to have them exposed to the
                public without their veils?? etc. etc. I get the feeling that this
                walk-out has more to do with getting their 15 minutes of fame than
                doing anything productive.

                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Dani Moss [mailto:angelwoman@...]
                Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:48 AM
                To: DaniMoss333@...
                Subject: [existlist] Please read and Follow your heart


                Women United Against War

                [snip]


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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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              • eduard
                Dani,
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 3, 2002
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                  Dani,

                  <<<< As far as all the injustices done to women on thrid world
                  countries, us
                  women are much more aware of that than most men and have been fighting
                  that
                  for a long time. All the proceeds for the Lilith concerts go to fight
                  that
                  as do all them from the Vagina Miniloges and many many other groups of
                  women
                  supporting women through out the world. >>>>>

                  If you were more aware of the injustices, then where were the protests
                  against Saddam?? I still think that it is easy to protest against the
                  war and the Bush administration because it is easy and you can make
                  the evening news. Walking out congress does not help anyone.

                  eduard
                • Bill Harris
                  Bookdoc, I think each of us carries the greed toxin. When we band together some sort of multiplier effect comes into play. The lust to power and status
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 3, 2002
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                    Bookdoc, I think each of us carries the greed toxin. When we band together some sort of multiplier effect comes into play. The lust to power and status obliterates the original interest, goals are lost and the struggle over the carcass ensues. It all emanates from that seminal survival instinct. It seems to permeate all cellular life forms, both flora and fauna. With enough space and opportunity we can avoid the greater part of interspecies entanglements.
                    You consciously limit group activity. That is one answer that I also use. I have no social life and try to limit my group associations to strictly ruled encounters. If I agree to the rules I will stick to my bargain, I expect the same of my fellows. The law, prior agreement, is the only framework in which we can interact without chaos. Good will and morals go by the by once the greed toxin inoculates a situation.
                    Survival is not fun unless you take the attitude of a scrotum dragging, I must win tyrant. I find no interest in such a life. Society is a collaboration I try to minimize my involvement with. I probably draw the line at greater circumference than you do, but then that is a matter of personal interest and risk assessment. Bill
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Fictional Character
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:01 PM
                    Subject: [existlist] Re: Please read and Follow your heart


                    When idiots have societies and groups with causes that are
                    "greater than the individual" it is exactly these things that bring
                    about the altercation, violence and mass destruction.

                    Following my interest, I have no interest in a grouping...a bad
                    one or one that might come under the guise of 'goodness' which
                    one would need to define for me anyway. More dangerous than a
                    single 'Duard with a loud mouth and stupid opinions are
                    groups...of any sort.

                    If you want to do good as a group, go find and join with Al Qaida,
                    and ruin the 'purity' of their rank and file by not wanting to be part
                    of the group you are in.

                    Fedup Myheart
                    -----------------------------


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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bill Harris
                    ... From: Bill Harris To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Please read and Follow your heart
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 4, 2002
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Bill Harris
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:29 AM
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Please read and Follow your heart


                      Bookdoc, I think each of us carries the greed toxin. When we band together some sort of multiplier effect comes into play. The lust to power and status obliterates the original interest, goals are lost and the struggle over the carcass ensues. It all emanates from that seminal survival instinct. It seems to permeate all cellular life forms, both flora and fauna. With enough space and opportunity we can avoid the greater part of interspecies entanglements.
                      You consciously limit group activity. That is one answer that I also use. I have no social life and try to limit my group associations to strictly ruled encounters. If I agree to the rules I will stick to my bargain, I expect the same of my fellows. The law, prior agreement, is the only framework in which we can interact without chaos. Good will and morals go by the by once the greed toxin inoculates a situation.
                      Survival is not fun unless you take the attitude of a scrotum dragging, I must win tyrant. I find no interest in such a life. Society is a collaboration I try to minimize my involvement with. I probably draw the line at greater circumference than you do, but then that is a matter of personal interest and risk assessment. Bill
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Fictional Character
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:01 PM
                      Subject: [existlist] Re: Please read and Follow your heart


                      When idiots have societies and groups with causes that are
                      "greater than the individual" it is exactly these things that bring
                      about the altercation, violence and mass destruction.

                      Following my interest, I have no interest in a grouping...a bad
                      one or one that might come under the guise of 'goodness' which
                      one would need to define for me anyway. More dangerous than a
                      single 'Duard with a loud mouth and stupid opinions are
                      groups...of any sort.

                      If you want to do good as a group, go find and join with Al Qaida,
                      and ruin the 'purity' of their rank and file by not wanting to be part
                      of the group you are in.

                      Fedup Myheart
                      -----------------------------


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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Fictional Character
                      I don t mean to come
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 5, 2002
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                        <<I probably draw the line at greater circumference than you do,
                        but then that is a matter of personal interest and risk
                        assessment. >>

                        I don't mean to come off as a hermit, though I expect it doesn't
                        matter. I don't, however, consider myself part of 'society' except in
                        those cases where I am forced to participate or sacrifice other
                        interest (schooling children, taxes, etc.). I used to fight these
                        things...imagine the absurdity of 'authority'? Why one can lord it
                        over another makes nonsense...except in the primal notation. I
                        can attend 'social' events but fear I don't see them as more than
                        a gathering of chance.

                        If society were to be a tasty entity, it would be one that the
                        constituents entered into willfully...and positively. And while there
                        are nice thoughts there, theory will fail as constituents seek
                        'advantage'. Regretfully, there is no reinforcement for those who
                        seek to share their help...but then there are interesting new-ish
                        behaviors that suggest there may be ways to share and be
                        repaid (shareware?). However, the whole concept of value turns
                        to greed and melts in the spotlight as if made of wax. The society
                        is purist at its beginning...yet that beginning always fades.

                        My only interest in society and social threory was an idea I had
                        for Destructionism...a system which continually UNBUILT itself,
                        rather than forming constituencies and such...but I couldn't come
                        to a mechanism that would affect the dissemblance.

                        Otter Creek
                        ------------------------
                      • Bill Harris
                        Otter, Ah Hah, and thus your idea of joining Al Queda to corrupt it from within. You know it works but is a two edged sword. I just finished a tour with a
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 5, 2002
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                          Otter, Ah Hah, and thus your idea of joining Al Queda to corrupt it from within. You know it works but is a two edged sword. I just finished a tour with a group with a strict confidentuality rule. The fact I will not speak of specifics is proof of the duplicitous effects of such encounters. The members were radically different from me. I found I did not detest them personally but their ideas still are repulsive to me.
                          Withdrawal of interest is a powerful action. It seems to leave feelings of guilt in the abandoned. It seems a good vehicle for forcing introspection upon idealogue dullards. Bill
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Fictional Character
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:33 AM
                          Subject: [existlist] Re: Please read and Flop


                          <<I probably draw the line at greater circumference than you do,
                          but then that is a matter of personal interest and risk
                          assessment. >>

                          I don't mean to come off as a hermit, though I expect it doesn't
                          matter. I don't, however, consider myself part of 'society' except in
                          those cases where I am forced to participate or sacrifice other
                          interest (schooling children, taxes, etc.). I used to fight these
                          things...imagine the absurdity of 'authority'? Why one can lord it
                          over another makes nonsense...except in the primal notation. I
                          can attend 'social' events but fear I don't see them as more than
                          a gathering of chance.

                          If society were to be a tasty entity, it would be one that the
                          constituents entered into willfully...and positively. And while there
                          are nice thoughts there, theory will fail as constituents seek
                          'advantage'. Regretfully, there is no reinforcement for those who
                          seek to share their help...but then there are interesting new-ish
                          behaviors that suggest there may be ways to share and be
                          repaid (shareware?). However, the whole concept of value turns
                          to greed and melts in the spotlight as if made of wax. The society
                          is purist at its beginning...yet that beginning always fades.

                          My only interest in society and social threory was an idea I had
                          for Destructionism...a system which continually UNBUILT itself,
                          rather than forming constituencies and such...but I couldn't come
                          to a mechanism that would affect the dissemblance.

                          Otter Creek
                          ------------------------


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                        • Fictional Character
                          Actually, no. Interesting connection, though. What I was thinking, more-or-less,
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 5, 2002
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                            <<Ah Hah, and thus your idea of joining Al Queda to corrupt it from
                            within.>>

                            Actually, no. Interesting connection, though.

                            What I was thinking, more-or-less, was that the actual setup of the
                            government would strip individuals of rights and powers as they
                            developed the rights and powers, so you'd never have stuff like
                            unlimited expense accounts. The mechanism would have to be chaotic,
                            so the individuals would never know when/if they were losing a power
                            or benefit or getting fired. Idea being, there would be a virtual
                            elimination of loopholes, as no one would have time to discover,
                            invent or endulge them...nor the will to bother with the effort.

                            Cracked Up
                            ----------
                          • Bill Harris
                            Cracked, Your idea is similar to the concept of the executive authority that has been undermined by civil service and the courts. Now a chief exex has a
                            Message 13 of 13 , Dec 5, 2002
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                              Cracked, Your idea is similar to the concept of the executive authority that has been undermined by civil service and the courts. Now a chief exex has a brief window after election to discard the terminally worthless. Soon it is back to business as usual. That sort of system seems to imply a great deal of personal will to authority. In small business we can still wield the ax but reputation of severity is a hard thing to shake.
                              Having a "system" that produces eternal revolution sounds like Marx. I think that behind it someone has to wear the black hat. Pay me enough and I`ll do it, just don`t erode my authority when I am in mid swing of the blade. Bill
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Fictional Character
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:28 AM
                              Subject: [existlist] Re: Please read and Flop 2


                              <<Ah Hah, and thus your idea of joining Al Queda to corrupt it from
                              within.>>

                              Actually, no. Interesting connection, though.

                              What I was thinking, more-or-less, was that the actual setup of the
                              government would strip individuals of rights and powers as they
                              developed the rights and powers, so you'd never have stuff like
                              unlimited expense accounts. The mechanism would have to be chaotic,
                              so the individuals would never know when/if they were losing a power
                              or benefit or getting fired. Idea being, there would be a virtual
                              elimination of loopholes, as no one would have time to discover,
                              invent or endulge them...nor the will to bother with the effort.

                              Cracked Up
                              ----------


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