Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [existlist] Kafka

Expand Messages
  • Mi Hwa Yoo
    Philosophy must quit mulling around with gods, myth and magical thinking, and get back to its work of answering the questions that frame our existence. I am
    Message 1 of 46 , Apr 2, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      "Philosophy must quit mulling around with gods, myth and magical thinking, and get back to its work of answering the questions that frame our existence."

      I am pretty ignorant and am not sure where this excerpt came from.

      Our Existence is closely linked with gods, myth and so on. How can one stop pondering over these issues to answer the "questions that frame our existence?" Do we even know what those questions are? I'd like to think that by mulling over these issues one could at least grasp what those questions are. Answering them might be very difficult.

      Thanks.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Edward Alf
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 1:20 PM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] Kafka


      Bill,

      actually it would take infinite energy to accelerate to the speed of light
      ... the object travelling at that speed would have infinite mass and zero
      length ... i get your point ...

      but it is always nice to think that someday humans will be able to warp
      their way around the universe ... according to superstring theory we should
      be able to do ... however, we may have shrink ourselves down to less than
      the Plank length ...

      of course, we can certainly reach the moon and mars for settlement ....

      i dont know about this, "Philosophy must quit mulling around with gods
      ,myths, and magical thinking, and get back to its work of answering the
      questions that frame our existence" ... maybe we need a bit more myth and
      magic ... i get the feeling that our rationalist approach has taken the fun
      out of it all ... there is nothing wrong with believing in Santa Claus or
      the Tooth Fairy ... all myths have some base and much of it relates to moral
      lessons ... now that we have explained away Santa, there isnt a catchy song
      to tell us that we had better be good and better be nice .... of course
      morality is not dependent upon myth, but it helps ... i think i will work on
      that one ... be back later with a proposal of myth for the 21st century ...
      :-))

      have fun ...

      eduard


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Bill Harris" <bhvwd@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:26 AM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] Kafka


      1) > Ed, It would take half the energy produced on earth for a year to
      accelerate
      > two kilos of matter to the speed of light. As Bob Dylan says : We aint
      goin
      > nowhere.

      2) >Ed, String theory is pure math, It will not be Validated by experment
      { it
      would be excellent if that were proven contrary] Philosophy must quit
      mulling around with gods ,myths, and magical thinking, and get back to its
      work of answering the questions that frame our existance.

      3) >Ed, Well said. Iam not opposed to art. My home and office are full of
      it.
      many say i am full of it .I like the machines and i like The right brained
      nice things in music art and literature. Philosophy is too important to be
      a pastime for fun. It is the mainspring which powers the species ambitions.
      It must take the latest learned concepts to orient the society on new and
      always changing vectors.


      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Edward Alf <ealf@...>
      > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:11 PM
      > Subject: Re: [existlist] Kafka
      >
      >
      > > Bill et all,
      > >
      > > wow ... "born to die in a vast universe that does not care" ... how
      > > fatalistic! ... and pessimistic! ... even if we do not find some other
      > > species, that does not mean that we should give up ... the universe is
      us
      > > and we can play or role to expand to the far galaxies, as i would
      suggest
      > we
      > > are intended to do ...
      > >
      > > have fun
      > >
      > > eduard
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Bill Harris" <bhvwd@...>
      > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 5:24 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Kafka
      > >
      > >
      > > > Onur, The modern existential agnst exists in the concepts that we are
      > the
      > > > only known collective rational consciousness and we are so small and
      > > > insignificant we will make no difference at all. I am a member of SETI
      > and
      > > > have crunched over 120 data units in the last year. We hear nothing
      > > > intelligent from the cosmos. In relative terms we are totally
      isolated.
      > > Don
      > > > Henley sums it up on his latest CD in a song called Theyre not here
      > theyre
      > > > not coming. Science has no room for belief,it is numbers ,it is logic.
      > > > Science knows, does not know, is trying to find out,or does not
      careOne
      > of
      > > > the things it does not care about is faith. The big questions of
      > classical
      > > > philosophy are answered; Who/What am I, Where did I come from, Where
      am
      > I
      > > > going? Intelligent seeking people know the answers and like Nitche,
      > > realise
      > > > the answers are disturbing. We are each a singularity, born to die, in
      a
      > > > vast universe that does not care. Dig it dude.
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >



      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • yeoman
      CJB, The Doorman episode opens up all sorts of ideas. Its alternate titles are Before the Law and Man from the Country , the latter which is in Yiddish
      Message 46 of 46 , Mar 23, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        CJB,

        The Doorman episode opens up all sorts of ideas. Its alternate titles are
        "Before the Law" and "Man from the Country", the latter which is in Yiddish
        carries the idea of "obstinate incompetence" [according to the introduction
        by Steiner]. Which seems appropriate for the way this story within a story
        unfolds. The question might also be asked as to why the Doorman himself
        has had to wait at the door.

        One of the interesting parts that I read was somewhere in the first part
        where I think it is the Uncle who objects to K's behaviour, in that by not
        protesting his innocence, he is showing that he may be guilty. Of what,
        the people around K, never seem to ask.

        eduard

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Cameron Brauer" <cbrauer@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 12:40 PM
        Subject: [existlist] Re: Kafka


        > Also, I really enjoyed the little story about the man waiting at the
        > door. The man was never told that he HAD to wait at the door. His
        > choice to do so was out of blind belief, shadows on the wall of the
        > cave, perhaps. When he should have turned around, walked away and
        > lived his life, he chose to do what he thought he Had to do.
        >
        > At the end of that story, the door was Shut forever. Interesting,
        > that it needed to be shut. Was it really open the whole time?
        > Maybe the doormans supposed athority was a lot like the courts?
        > (Only valid to those that believe in it?)
        >
        > CJB
        >
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, yeoman <yeoman@v...> wrote:
        > > CJB,
        > >
        > > Yes, I agree, the wait was worth it.
        > >
        > > I shall have to think about that ending again. As to his
        > behaviour, I got
        > > the feeling that he was spending too much time in thinking about
        > his
        > > actions. But then that may only be a reflection of manner of
        > Kafka's
        > > writing. But in a sense, I do see your point, in that he seems to
        > make
        > > conclusions about others without further considering the outcome
        > of his
        > > later actions. He falls into line a bit too quickly. Yet that may
        > be
        > > something of the times in Praque. He accepts that there is a
        > hierarchy,
        > > even though he can not see, nor communicate with the higher levels.
        > >
        > > eduard
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Cameron Brauer" <cbrauer@e...>
        > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 12:03 PM
        > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Kafka
        > >
        > >
        > > > I just finished reading "The Trial" as well. It certainly could
        > have
        > > > been shorter, but the last few chapters were well worth the wait.
        > > > It's a very relevant book to the subject of Existentialism.
        > Joseph
        > > > K. spends his life existing in the most basic of senses,
        > subservient
        > > > to his work and the court that any more active "self" would have
        > > > brushed off. He treats women as objects, which was normal for
        > the
        > > > time, but Kafka obviously wasn't thrilled by that [or
        > > > other] "norms." He spends his life as a role played in the
        > lives of
        > > > others with little though put to the decisions he makes and the
        > > > actions he takes toward others.
        > > >
        > > > In the end, it's all summed up in a very poignant scene where his
        > > > lack of selfhood is demonstrated by his refusal to be an active
        > part
        > > > in his fate and thus he dies in a country gravel pit reaching out
        > > > for "The Other" in the window of the house overlooking the scene.
        > > >
        > > > Spiffy.
        > > > CJB
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, yeoman <yeoman@v...> wrote:
        > > > > Well, I finished reading, "The Trial".
        > > > >
        > > > > My opinion is that this would have been much better as a short
        > > > story,
        > > > > instead of a novel. Even Kafka's biographer admits that the
        > > > sequence of
        > > > > chapters is a guess.
        > > > >
        > > > > However, I am not suggesting that this takes away from Kafka's
        > > > view of
        > > > > meaningless bureaucracy. Although there is lots of this kind
        > of
        > > > thing in
        > > > > the present day, my feeling is that much of this comes from
        > > > Kafka's own
        > > > > experience with his overbearing father. I am not sure how
        > > > accurate the
        > > > > descriptions in the book truly reflect the condition in Praque
        > in
        > > > the
        > > > > 1930s.
        > > > >
        > > > > eduard
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        > > >
        > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >
        >
        >
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >
        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.