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59021Re: [existlist] Re: Harmless ideas about ideas

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  • eduardathome
    Jan 18, 2013
      My point is that the "principle" is not developed separately from the brain.

      The apple doesn't play any role in consciousness. There isn't any part of
      the consciousness [our awareness of our existence] that is dependent upon
      some role that an apple may play. Knowledge of the apple may modify what we
      think in the sense of my being aware that that I am the eduard that eats
      apples, but the apple does not contribute to the act of awareness. I am
      aware all by myself and that act occurs within my brain not elsewhere, even
      in part.

      I would agree that an apple has attributes such as roundness and red colour
      [or green], but it does not have an "idea" as a thought element that somehow
      enters my brain to complete my thinking. To put it another way, if a neuron
      in my brain outputs a "true" signal that this is an apple, it does not have
      an input whose source is some neuron or equivalent device in the apple.

      The subject is "thinking". My observation or experience of an apple can
      facilitate my awareness of myself in relation to apples, but the apple does
      not think and thus cannot play a role in my own thinking or my act of


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mary
      Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 1:37 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [existlist] Re: Harmless ideas about ideas

      Just to clarify eduard, is the principle also inherent in the object whether
      it requires our mediation or not? A principle is not developed without, or
      in isolation from, an object. If the brain is developing principles about
      the brain, the principle is immanent in both the object and the observer. If
      you contend that no other objects have brains, I remind you that animals do.
      Apples, of course, do not, but this does not mean the principle is developed
      separately from the apple. The apple plays a role in consciousness.


      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
      > eduard,
      > Let's set aside the possibility that we can't disprove what we can't prove
      > or whether animals are aware they are thinking, and return to my original
      > assertion. Besides, if animals do attend to their thoughts as humans do,
      > then this supports my premise that it happens. I can observe an apple and
      > observe my observation without examining my neural processing.
      > The potential principle in any object, including our brain and thought, is
      > that it's other than us but is also for itself and for us. As you say, an
      > unfamiliar object doesn't automatically present a principle to us; the
      > object requires mediation in order to discover the principle. Is the
      > principled imagined or is it inherent?
      > Mary


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