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42146Re: Learned self destruction

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  • louise
    Sep 6, 2007
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      Hmm .. now what about that word, 'vendetta'?? Doesn't look
      particularly Arabic, or Germanic, for that matter.

      ... spying out beams

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo" <maryjo.malo@...> wrote:
      > I recall that some of the Germanic tribes, particularly the Franks,
      > practiced the blood oath. The Scots clans also did so until at
      > the 18th century, even brought it with them into Appalachia.
      > Eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.
      > Mary
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Exist List Moderator
      > <existlist1@> wrote:
      > Bill / et al...
      > The notion of vendetta justice evolved in a region with nomadic
      > tribes. Without the artificial (but in my biased view "better")
      > notions of community we have developed, a direct result of permanent
      > settlements thanks for farming / domestication, tribes had to
      > more direct balances of power. In the northern areas of the Ottoman,
      > Greek justice merged with European tribal ways and we have our
      > current "Western" balance of power -- the lawyer! Seriously, our
      > balances between groups occur in a legal battleground (gamed by the
      > state, but that's another issue).
      > Tribal people didn't have the need for permanent courts. Islamic
      > courts could be assembled quickly, followed a strict code mixing the
      > hadith and Koran, and vendetta was an accepted part of the justice
      > system. You killed one of our tribe... we'll kill two of yours. The
      > problem with this is clear: what if the first death was an
      > "accident"? Then, the next two become murder. Escalation occurs.
      > There was a study of Arab cultures I read that concluded each side
      > always "overstates" and "over reacts" to a perceived wrong. This
      > would happen in our culture, too, but we seem to have
      decided "losing
      > on appeal" is about the worst fate in a case. Arabic nations are
      > working towards a similar approach -- but it will be unique to their
      > cultures and not a Western idea of justice.
      > A friend from Egypt told me: if you wrong me, your family is
      > responsible and must also be held accountable. Your people committed
      > a crime when you did.
      > Think about the philosophical implications. It is the "sins of the
      > father" being passed across, down, and sideways through a community.
      > I'd rather say "you did this" and not hold everyone and everything
      > accountable. I know society contributes. I know what I do affects
      > others. But if you commit a crime, it should be you, the individual,
      > who pays a price -- not everyone from your "tribe" wronged me.
      > - CSW
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