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36667Re: "Christian" existentialism

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  • nolanhatley
    Nov 8, 2005
      Trinidad and to whomever else existentially concerned,

      It's been awhile. I'm intriguied to find you absorbed with the
      possibility of authentic Christian existence. Louise speaks the
      truth about cyberspace relations, and that's why I could only
      imagine meeting you and her in person, and engaging in some powerful
      dialetic and embrace. I've wandered away from this list, and truly
      in my soul. I wept one night about two weeks ago and crying out
      those infamous words of doubt mixed with faith- "My God, my God, why
      hast thou forsaken me?" Since then, I have discovered an
      existential theatre so to speak in the work of Polish theatre artist
      Jerry Grotowski, the "unbeliever" whose theatrical art I believe to
      most informed by the Bible. I have delved into the history of
      rock'n'roll, especially that of Led Zeppellin (Louise, I welcome
      insight), I have been far too keen a student of my own Seducer's
      Diary (Louise and all women, forgive me) and I have also discovered
      another German Christian absorbed by existentialism in one William
      Hubben. This man wrote two books in his life- "The Four Apoclapytic
      Horsemen" (SK, FD, FN, and Franz Kafka) as wekk as his autobiography
      Exiled Pilgrim, reportedly on his leaving Germany to come to America
      in the Reich days.

      Also, Trinidad, you know far more than I do, so I like Dostoevsky's
      imagination reveling before mine, I kiss you like Aloysha did Ivan,
      through cyberspace and consequentially wonder if would have the guts
      to do such an Anti-American cultural phenomenon in public.

      If only harsh critics like you had the faith, the American Christian
      might be possible. Shestov echoes this timeless truth time and time
      again from a very similar question put to Jesus himself....

      Is it possible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven?

      He replied that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a
      needle (which I hear is something like a gate into a town or
      something) and then of course said beautiful words of faith, "With
      God, all things are possible."

      But, on to more wandering, hoping, believing, in spite of my
      Doesstoevskian character,


      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Trinidad Cruz" <cruzprdb@w...>
      > Occasionally, mostly out of exhaustion, the ultimate goal of the
      > "fellowship" (a thousand years of a world unified behind entirely
      > Christian leaders, Vereide's "Reich" of Jesus meant to facilitate
      > return) is not particularly terrifying to me or an immediately
      > pressing problem. As a scientist this looming agenda saddens me,
      > the history of Christian reaction to scientific progress, but then
      > won't live for a thousand years, nor would I abandon scientific
      > endeavor just because uneducated people hold the reigns of power.
      > an atheist I can only assess the agenda as more of the same: really
      > quite stupid superstitious people lording it over other superior
      > intellects. As an activist I am concerned not with the goal of the
      > agenda, but rather the acts committed by weak and stupid men
      > attempting to implement it, acts often violating the basic human
      > rights of the victims along the way, victims often more educated,
      > intelligent, and more decent, than the agendized humans inflicting
      > them. I think now, this "fellowship" has too much power, too much
      > wealth, and is far too active in the world against ordinary
      > As an existentialist I can only act on what seems to be. This man
      > for me a rare example of a Christian with a partial sense of what
      > seems to be. His example is the finest I can find for what a modern
      > American Christian should emulate. In these times, in this
      country, if
      > you are dabbling in existentialism, and are a Christian, start with
      > this man. He is the one for these days.
      > Dietrich Bonhoeffer (February 4, 1906 - April 9, 1945) was a German
      > Lutheran theologian and preacher who worked for the ecumene and
      > strongly opposed the anti-semitic policies of Nazi Germany. He was
      > eventually executed.
      > Dietrich was born in Breslau, Germany (now Wroclaw, Poland) into a
      > middle to upper class family, the son of a doctor. At a very young
      > age, before World War I began, he decided to become a minister. His
      > parents supported his decision and he started to spend a lot of
      > studying the Bible. When he was old enough he attended college and
      > seminary and became a minister. He studied theology in Tübingen
      and in
      > New York City.
      > He returned to Germany in 1931, where he lectured on theology in
      > Berlin and wrote several books. A strong opponent of fascism, he
      > to London when Adolf Hitler rose to power in 1933. He returned
      > Martin Niemöller and Karl Barth formed the anti-Nazi Confessing
      > Church, only to have his seminary closed down at the outbreak of
      > War II. The Gestapo also banned him from preaching. During this
      > Bonhoffer worked closely with numerous opponents of Hitler.
      > During World War II, Dietrich played a key leadership role in the
      > Confessing Church, which opposed the anti-semitic policies of Adolf
      > Hitler. Initially Dietrich fought to gain strong support from the
      > state church against Hitler's treatment of the Jews, but after
      > countless instances of refusal to take action he took the
      > to help start the confessing church. While the confessing church
      > not large, it represented the only Christian church in Germany that
      > was in opposition to Hitler's practices.
      > After he realized that diplomatic means to stop Hitler were
      > impossible, he decided that assassination was the only solution. He
      > joined a hidden group of high-ranking officers who were trying to
      > Hitler killed. Bonhoeffer was arrested in April 1943 after money
      > was used to help Jews escape to Switzerland was traced to him. He
      > charged with conspiracy and imprisoned for two years in
      > After the unsuccessful attempt on Hitler's life on July 20, 1944,
      > connections of Bonhoeffer to the conspirators were discovered, and
      > was executed by hanging just three weeks before the liberation of
      > city. His execution was carried out even though the Nazis knew that
      > they were going to lose the war. They did not want the end of the
      > to save Bonhoeffer from death.They did not consider the end of the
      > the end of the Nazi agenda.
      > He is considered a martyr for his faith and was later absolved of
      > crimes by the postwar German government. His books Ethics (1949)
      > Letters from Prison (1953) were published posthumously. In his
      > theological writings, he states that Christianity should abandon
      > "religious premise": the need for explanation of the world or man's
      > need for salvation are not central, but rather the acting in the
      > in imitation of Jesus.
      > I think a modern example may be emerging in Dr. David Ray Griffin,
      > least in the sense of speaking up about what may be true. Sadly,
      > the most part, American Christians are afraid to face what they
      > together with Bush family, the "fellowship", and Jesus Christ. In a
      > misguided effort to use the state to enforce and promote religion
      > have surrendered the individual power to act and be what they are -
      > "Jesus's" in contrast to the state, in contrast to the world. I
      > thought the "kingdom of Jesus" was not of this world. Indeed the
      > existentialist Christian considers the "kingdom" to only exist in
      > individual, on an individual basis, not something to be built on
      > by men in a group effort. Men in groups build buildings. Men in
      > sometimes blow buildings up. Men in groups do not, cannot, build
      > individual conviction and character; and for an existentialist
      > Christian - men in groups can blow up an individual's body, but
      > blow up individual conviction and character.
      > On Oct. 15th and 16th, New Yorkers filled two venues to hear the
      > prominent theologian and author of two books on 9/11 give a
      > presentation entitled "The Destruction of the Trade Towers: A
      > Christian Theologian Speaks Out." Dr. Griffin has continued to
      blaze a
      > trail of courage, leading where most media and elected officials
      > feared to tread. His presentation went straight to the core of one
      > the most powerful indictments of the official story, the collapse
      > the towers and WTC 7. Notable theologian David Ray Griffin argued
      > recently revealed evidence seals the case that the Twin Towers and
      > WTC-7 were destroyed by controlled demolition with explosives.
      > the many enduring mysteries of the 9/11 attacks, Dr. Griffin
      > concluded, "It is already possible to know, beyond a reasonable
      > one very important thing: the destruction of the World Trade Center
      > was an inside job, orchestrated by terrorists within our own
      > Dr. Griffin included excerpts from the firemen's tapes which were
      > recently released as a result of a prolonged court battle led by
      > victim's families represented by attorney Norman Siegel and
      > in the NY Times. He also included statements by many witnesses.
      > sources gave ample testimony giving evidence of explosions going
      > in the buildings. A 12 minute film was shown for the audiences, who
      > saw for themselves the undeniable evidence for controlled
      > Dr. Griffin listed ten characteristics of the collapses which all
      > indicate that the buildings did not fall due to being struck by
      > or the ensuing fires. He explained the buildings fell suddenly
      > any indication of collapse. They fell straight into their own
      > footprint at free-fall speed, meeting virtually no resistance as
      > fell--a physical impossibility unless all vertical support was
      > progressively removed by explosives severing the core columns. The
      > towers were built to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 and 160
      > per hour winds, and nothing about the plane crashes or ensuing
      > gave any indication of causing the kind of damage that would be
      > necessary to trigger even a partial or progressive collapse, much
      > the shredding of the buildings into dust and fragments that could
      > at free-fall speed. The massive core columns--the most significant
      > structural feature of the buildings, whose very existence is
      denied in
      > the official 9/11 Commission Report--were severed into uniform 30
      > sections, just right for the 30-foot trucks used to remove them
      > quickly before a real investigation could transpire. There was a
      > volcanic-like dust cloud from the concrete being pulverized, and no
      > physical mechanism other than explosives can begin to explain how
      > much of the buildings' concrete was rendered into extremely fine
      > The debris was ejected horizontally several hundred feet in huge
      > shaped plumes stretching in all directions, with telltale "squibs"
      > following the path of the explosives downward. These are all facts
      > that have been avoided by mainstream and even most of the
      > media. Again, these are characteristics of the kind of controlled
      > demolitions that news people and firefighters were describing on
      > morning of 9/11. Those multiple first-person descriptions of
      > controlled demolition were hidden away for almost four years by the
      > City of New York until a lawsuit finally forced the city to release
      > them. Dr. Griffin's study of these accounts has led him beyond his
      > earlier questioning of the official story of the collapses, to his
      > above-quoted conclusion: The destruction of the three WTC buildings
      > with explosives by US government terrorists is no longer a
      > but a fact that has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
      > In this venue I am asked to respect the Christian position in
      > existentialism, often by the moderator. I am willing to do so,
      > unfortunately I have yet to find any living Christians
      > here. I am always having to pick up the stones and bring back the
      > ghosts to find one. Real living Christians in America may become as
      > endangered a species as bio-chemists.
      > "come crucify the dread"
      > Trinidad Cruz
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