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36180RE: [existlist] truth tellers....like you and me?

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  • Aija Veldre Beldavs
    Sep 4, 2005
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      so many really good posts the last few days...and reactions to them.
      a quick response to one where i pick a bone on a simple, obvious level:

      > they view the world. I don't think in the Long Run it can be good to promote
      > the believing in fairy tales to the general society. I would teach them
      > science. Bob...

      the problem isn't with fairy tales, fantasy, myth, folklore, imagination,
      science fiction, role playing, virtual reality, etc. if they're seen and
      taught as such. if we don't know much of anything for sure, if it's all
      phenomenological constructs, the claim to be absolute truth falls away,
      everything has its limits as to what can do and express. of course science
      is the most efficient way known to achieve certain results (not truths as
      has already been pointed out on the list) and communicate with universally
      accepted structures and signs without need of translation as with natural
      language.

      take away from people what they have constructed as deeply meaningful,
      especially core values held in common, traditions acquired over
      generations as variable tests over time and space, tied to lifestyles and
      environment, and most people will flounder, the vacuum is often filled
      with self-destructive distractions because systems take time and
      experience to build, not just insight and brilliance.

      additionally, i don't see tradition as static, or stuck in history, but as
      one of the evolutionary adapting dynamics.

      over time, a lot of things fall as they may (of course not as someone
      might like), a natural kind of homeostasis. without some kind of
      foundation or focus many will turn to drugs, alcohol, dysfunctional
      activity. i recall recounts about native American children in Canada
      sniffing gasolene, the same happening with marginalized poor aboriginal
      populations in Australia or Siberia. drug abuse increases with collective
      social malaise.

      top-down trying to radically, violently cleanse society of accumulated
      tradition, religion, values was a fundamental mistake made by the
      extremists of the socialist revolution. the other mistake was dumping
      humanism and a good part of the Enlightenement with an ends justifies the
      means ultraidealistic or ultramaterialist disregard of human cost and
      suffering - individual or group.

      i see a shifting adaptable optimum state for one to be open to
      enlightenment (including reason, science). as Simone points out related
      to transcendence of one's present "situation", an adjustment of
      homeostasis, rather than imagining "being there"/ dasein as consisting of
      nonadaptive static states. either a violent state of
      rage/revenge/scapegoating, or total desperation, hopelessness throw the
      system into intolerable dysfunction in that it is a social system of, for,
      by humans: it's not just an intellectual phenomena to experience the loss
      of meaning, the bottom dropping out, absurdness of one's personal world
      especially when horrible things happen, not just individually but to one's
      group. many people in the world have this crisis experience, not just
      intellectuals.

      it is just as easy for intellectuals (the "you's and me's") to generalize
      and to look for easy targets to blame, except having more power, there is
      potential for great damage. i prefer to think the small percent george
      talks about are the ones who pull together enough to look for solutions or
      at least options, assume responsibility, and try to be constructive even
      against perceived odds and loss of hope. needless to say, of that small
      percent not everyone is an academic. a lot happens bottom -up, also
      accumulatively, often not easily observable from the top.

      btw i don't have an easy overall answer to know-it-alls truth tellers
      (hmm...also thinking of Dune's truth sayers). i've slugged it out with
      some, ignored others, haven't really brought over anyone to my way of
      thinking (which in a Bakhtinian sense is fine, as both engaged sides go
      away with a better understanding of something.:)

      aija
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