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3510Re: [existlist] Re: Kafka, Rabelaise, Carroll, Beckett

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  • William Harris
    Aug 31, 2001
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      Bookdoc, Thank you for your kind reply, it seems most fitting with what I
      have read from your postings. I attempted to pose a negative situation, a
      positive situation, and a totally chaoatic situation. I included the five
      minute deadline to insure that a decision was made with regard to the
      circumstance. You are both good sports to participate in this, an outstanding
      openmindedness is what is first apparent. As to No.1 both of you were
      well reasoned and patient in your reactions. you are correct when you note
      the emotion is lacking in this kind of an exercise. It seemed Eduard was
      more interested in the direct emotional impact of the situation as given
      while you had an interest in the possible impact of multiple factors not
      mentioned. I had pre answered the questions to my satisfaction and on the
      first and had one difference from you, I first would have stopped the car.
      Driving in the mountains and discussing divorce is just tooooo much for me.{
      I have been devorced twice}
      No2:I meant this thing to give a hint of total disorganisation.
      Interestinglly bookdoc related to the victim while Eduard seemed more
      concerned with the totality of the picture. All of the emotions you
      mentioned seem operant and the weighting of one over the other is only a
      guess. I cheated on this , I have taken courses in weapons self defense and
      have friends who are practical shooters. They approach the situation with
      very set rules. If you produce a weapon you must be willing to kill with it.
      Shoot to kill, two rounds per target. With four targets that is eight
      rounds- the max capacity of many 9mms. You would have to be perfect, very
      fast , and damn lucky. My wife was really pissed off at all of us, she
      wanted the total John Wayne response. I would run for help. I also would
      never mention the weapon. No3 I have to say that both of you are seem less
      materialistic than the average , money grubbing Joe{i.e. Me} I want it all
      and I want it now American currency thank you Eduard. Bill
      nothing@... wrote:

      > <<What would you do in the first Five minutes after:
      >
      > 1. Your wife tells you she is having an affair as you are driving
      > through the mountains?
      > 2. You come upon four twenty year olds raping and beating a
      > female. You are in the woods and have a 9mm pistol but are one
      > mile from aid?
      > 3. You just won 8million dollars? >>
      >
      > I think it is unfair that I thought about this before answering. In
      > fact, I read 'Duard's answers before answering (excuse me for
      > finding it humorous that philosophy has an effect on behavior,
      > but place doesn't matter...). At the same time, I don't know if I find
      > these to necessarily be philosophically related. Either that, or I
      > am not sure how to fit the philosophical perspective in. The initial
      > impact would probably be an emotional one, and 5 minutes is
      > not a lot of time. The philosophy, that I would react to the
      > immediate situation and my interest in it. At the same time,
      > some of my reaction might attest to earlier points I tried to make
      > that a philosophy is not necessarily incapacitating. I can
      > convince myself of the idea of the philosophy, and yet it may not
      > directly affect/effect behavior. Absurd philosophy is more a
      > philosophy of intellectual construct than physical action.
      >
      > 1. I would think the mountains would have quite an effect on the
      > result. For example, say we were headed to the mountains for a
      > second honeymoon -- to a mountain resort where we had our
      > first honeymoon; or say the person with whom she had the affair
      > (is having) lives on the mountain. On the other hand, say she
      > were having an affair with another woman, or, say, a clown
      > because she liked his rubber nose, or, say, an imaginary affair
      > with a super-hero cartoon character. The situation would affect
      > the outcome as much as place.
      >
      > However, more than any of this mattering is the intent. With one
      > whom you trust your life, there should be respect and some
      > measure of partnership. the depth of betrayal is also linked to
      > the effect. Other circumstance (children, etc.) come into
      > emotional play. But if one does not consider the act as itself as
      > betrayal and considers interest and less tangible need, there
      > may not even be reason to be upset.
      >
      > In short, you can talk yourself into and out of anything. What do
      > you want to convince yourself of? It will end up being impossible
      > to tell if your reaction is genuine, new, improved or otherwise.
      >
      > Philosophically, I would like to suggest that I would have the
      > sense to find out where she wanted to go with it, and take a
      > course accordingly. It is also obvious to me that there is no
      > reasoning with emotion. If she were having interests elsewhere,
      > it is not for me to step in the way, and it is not in my best interest
      > to do so. I would hope not to pick a spouse so poorly in the first
      > place. However, one can never tell, and then things change. In
      > any case it will be another day tomorrow, and there is time to
      > re-evaluate to gain a new perspective, and put the relationship
      > into perspective -- either to continue it, or not.
      >
      > 2. If I am sure how many bullets are in the gun and I am
      > confident handling it, and I could be sure of the situation, there
      > would either be a shot in the air or shouting and waving for the
      > purpose of threatening. It is not up to me to take a life -- even of
      > what I might perceive to be a foul human. If it were possible to
      > secure them in some fashion, that would be my choice.
      >
      > At the same time, philosophically I am not sure where I would
      > stand. It is difficult when philosophy does not consider physical
      > violence as any means. I can honestly say that in my lifetime I
      > have never been in a fight -- regardless of verbal jousting. I have
      > had people angry at me (at least 2 of those times a gun has
      > appeared in situations where someone was angry with me), and
      > several have swung (only one connected). It becomes difficult to
      > understand the philosophical perspective that would bring
      > someone to these perspecitves. And I guess my only recourse is
      > to treat the situation with distrust. I can't understand the behavior,
      > but know I would instinctually find it wrong -- she should not be
      > held against her will, something in the wrongness of that is
      > enough to overcome my usual perspective.
      >
      > 3. Put away enough to make life comfortable (a critical mass, as
      > it were), and use the rest to explore interests while offering
      > opportunity to others via creation of scenarios (businesses, etc.).
      > It becomes more of a game at that point as one is free of the
      > work bondage. I happen to like my job, but there are other things
      > I might prefer, or be more interested, in exploring.
      >
      > And so...I have no use for a definition of 'reaction' sir 'Duard. I ask
      > you for definitions because yours always seem inconsistent or
      > unclear to me. I wouldn't need the definitions to figure out what it
      > was you thought you were saying...But I can't really blame you for
      > not tailoring your words to my understanding.
      >
      > Bill, were you expecting something else? and how would you
      > answer?
      >
      > vico...joyce
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