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20727Re: [existlist] It's all an illusion

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  • George Walton
    Jul 7, 2003
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      I see more clearly now the point you are making and up to a point, of course, I concur. It's just that, according to WHO, every 24 hours on planet Earth approximately 18,600 children aged 5 and younger will die from starvation in various 3rd world hellholes. In other words, in just the 20th century alone, literally millions and millions and millions of kids died after enduring days and days and days of horrific suffering.

      And, yes, regarding the "cause" of this, all we have our competing interpretations. And, in the end, when the Sun expands and swallows up the Earth [or if we get clobbered by The Big One tomorrow] everyone who ever was, is, or might have been is obliterated for eternity. So, in that context, sure, everything is, ultimately, illusory as hell.

      But you can bet your ass that those folks controlling the Global Economy are particularly keen on making sure the rest of us see their role in the mass starvation of the truly innocent as...well...especially illusory, right? In fact, someone once noted that if the American government stopped paying agribusiness NOT to grow food this, in conjunction with all the food that restaurants throw into the dumpsters each day, would fill the bellies of every single starving man, woman and child on the planet ten times over. So, obviously, some illusions are far more precious than others, eh?


      yeoman <yeoman@...> wrote:

      But that is exactly what an illusion is. At least as far as
      I am using the term.

      We tend to think of illusions as being something like a
      magic trick. As something which is basically false, but
      which for some reason we have been lead to belief is true.
      I would take it, that from a philosophical point of view,
      "illusion" IS as basic as a rock.

      I grant that a starving child is a starving child. But that
      is why I said before that what we see on the "outside" is a
      mixture of reality and illusion. If the child dies then
      that is a reality, but the fact that it dies in a world of
      plenty is perhaps the part which is illusionary.

      But the thing is that we cannot know which is illusion and
      which is real. It is all part of a matrix. The part which
      is real [the death of a child] is as hard to pin down as the
      illusion. Thus, one might as well say that it is all

      Now I can well understand your objecting that the death of a
      child is of such importance that it cannot possible be said
      to be an illusion, by any means. But as I have said,
      "illusion" isn't something which is false, but which is open
      to interpretation. If a child dies of starvation, what is
      the cause?? Surely it is someone's interpretation of what
      can and cannot take place.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "George Walton" <iambiguously@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 1:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] It's all an illusion

      > Eduard,
      > You speak of an "illusion" as though it were, say, a rock.
      As though you can pull it out of your pocket and say, "look,
      everyone, I have an illusion!".
      > As though, in turn, you can walk up to a starving child
      and explain her terrible misery as part of
      > Eventually, of course, you can start attaching the word
      "illusion" to everything. After all, something "may work for
      us" but that, too, is an illusion. And in attempting to
      refute that point of view you are merely expressing yet
      another illusion.
      > Plato invented Forms, in my view, because in one very,
      very crucial respect our lives do, indeed, become [one by
      one] an illusion: we die. And, absent evidence we can
      construe as less than illusory [meaning substantially more
      than illusory] it may as well be as if we had never been
      born at all, right?
      > Philosophy, someone once said, is just a dress rehearsal
      for our appointed encounter with the Grim Reaper. Which most
      of us, of course, want so badly to be the mother of all
      illusions. But how optimistic can we be, right?
      > So, illusory or not, we all seem hell bent on
      accummulating as many orgasms [sexual and otherwise] as we
      can. And, if you wish to encompass that as an illusion,
      maybe it is because you are not doing it right. ; )
      > Biggie

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