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19301Re: [existlist] subjectivity

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  • Mark and Bev Tindall
    Apr 21, 2003
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      Eduard wrote:

      > > Subjectivity is only known by science OBJECTIVELY because
      > that is the
      > > methodology of science - objective methodology.
      > Subjectivity can be known
      > > SUBJECTIVELY by existentialism because that is the
      > methodoloy of
      > > existentialism - subjective methodology. Science could
      > measure in a
      > > subjective manner if it wanted to (i.e. it is abole to do
      > so) but measuring
      > > in a subjective manner is excluded from objective
      > scientific methodology.
      > > If science measured in a subjective manner it would no
      >> longer be science but something else - a pseudoscience.


      > ---> But this ignores that science is presently studying
      > the subjective.

      It is studying the subjective OBJECTIVELY ... by OBJECTIVE methodology which
      excludes SUBJECTIVE methodology! Read above.

      > > Science cannot feel the same as the person who is
      >> undergoing depression for every person is unique and science
      >> cannot read the person's innermost being. Science cannot
      >> know the individual's non-physical mind as it has no method
      >> of measuring it. It cannot be measured objectively. It can
      >> only be
      > > experienced by the person him/herself.
      > ---> This is true. But science can delve into the
      > subjective [as you have said] and that is what I am saying.

      It can only delve into the subject in an OBJECTIVE manner and therefore
      looses an important area of subjectivity ...SUBJECTIVE METHODOLOGY. Read

      > But you do bring up an interesting point. If science cannot
      > read the person's innermost being, then it follows that
      > neither can religious existentialism.

      It can when it is INDIVIDUAL, PERSONAL AND SUBJECTIVE. Faith is not a group
      exercise but an individual, personal and subjective experience! An
      individual can read his / her own innermost being and that is what Christian
      existentialism says. Furthermore this is where the meeting with the
      transcendence of God ad ground and Source of all being occurs ... in the
      depths of the individual's spirit / non-phyical mind.

      > Does religious existentialism enter the patient's
      > unique mind??

      The unique individual enters his / her own non-physical mind belonging that
      same unique individual him / herself. Existentialism is a subjective
      philosophical methodolgy not a physical item.

      > > > There is a good article in this month's Scientific
      > American
      > >
      > > This is all objective quantitative measurement of
      >> subjectivity not subjective qualitatiuve measurement of
      >> subjecvtivity. They are not the same.
      > ---> You are simply making labels, as you see fit, and
      > applying them without any proof.

      Reread. Description and words mean something and are not there for pure
      decorative purposes.

      > ---> I did not say that science can reproduce the artist.
      > What i was saying was that the artist could be understood.
      > That is an entirely different matter.

      Sciuence cannot subjectively understand the artist. All science is capable
      of is objectively understanding the artist. If it does anything else it is
      not science.

      Is Paul Davies wrong about science?

      > > > My point being that this area of subjectivity is open to
      > > > scientific study.
      > >
      > > Yes it is! But only OBJECTIVELY and therefore only gives
      > a partial answer
      > > to the whole because it cannot study subjectivity in a
      > SUBJECTIVE manner. That is the problem! Science only
      > studies subjectivity in an OBJECTIVE way because objective
      > methodology is the only methodology it uses.
      > ---> Which brings us back to my original point. What then
      > studies individual existence in any manner??

      SUBJECTIVE EXISTENTIALISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      [.... banging my head on a brick wall ... doh! doh! doh! ................]

      > You have already said that individuality is unique.


      > How is the unique and subjective viewpoint of "I love Doris"
      > studied by religious existentialism?

      The same as any other type of EXISTENTIALISM ...SUBJECTIVE METHODOLOGY ---
      it is still EXISTENTIALISM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      [.... banging my head on a brick wall again ... doh! doh! doh!

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