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10927Re: Noumenon

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  • james tan
    Nov 22, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      just by the way, do u use "noumenon" in the same sense as kant's
      thing-in-themselves? just like to clarify the term.

      james.



      From: "swmaerske" <swmirsky@...>
      Reply-To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
      To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [WisdomForum] Re: Noumenon
      Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:51:48 -0000

      To use the term "entity" would be a mistake. I am not talking about
      positing an entity though our language makes it sound as though I am.
      Rather, I am talking about referencing a "placeholder". I admit, this
      is very problematic when we try to put this into language and so, I
      suspect, religions and their practices developed to address just this
      realization non-linguistically. Of course, we are language-using
      creatures and, as Wittgenstein made so clear (for some of us,
      anyway), we are inevtiably drawn to articulate our ideas in language,
      in fact we are bound to do this. And so, the conundrum. Do we talk
      about something which does not lend itself to that or do we maintain
      a studied and pregnant silence? I think both modes work and can be
      made use of (contra Wittgenstein) but I think the talking part
      requires very careful use of language and inclusion of broader means
      of expression than language alone. (Of course, for philosophizing, we
      have only language to rely on so, on this board, we are somewhat
      stuck.). -- SWM

      --- In WisdomForum@y..., "james tan" <tyjfk@h...> wrote:
      >
      > the opposite of phenomena is simply the absence of phenomena; to
      posit some
      > entity seems like a metaphysical mistake. the analogy with the moon
      does not
      > stand because it is assuming tt there is a "dark side" although we
      cant see
      > what is in there; my doubt is whether there is a dark side at all
      nevermind
      > what is there.
      >
      > james.
      >
      >
      >
      > From: "swmaerske" <swmirsky@a...>
      > Reply-To: WisdomForum@y...
      > To: WisdomForum@y...
      > Subject: [WisdomForum] Re: Noumenon
      > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:09:26 -0000
      >
      > Eduard said: "I would take it that the term "noumenon"
      > is coined simply to provide us with a word that is opposite to
      > "phenomenon" ... in the same sense as one might say "the dark side
      of
      > the moon" on the basis that surely the moon has another side
      although
      > we cannot see it."
      >
      > Yes, I would agree with this formulation. -- SWM
      >
      > --- In WisdomForum@y..., eduard <yeoman@v...> wrote:
      > > james,
      > >
      > > <<< if it is unknowable, then its existence is at best only a
      > > (theoretical) assumption, and as such its status as "unknowable"
      is
      > a
      > > bit skewed towards its assumed existence rather than its
      > nonexistence,
      > > so tt if it cant be proved to exist, it is not so much tt it
      doesnt
      > > exist but the failure of our own human limitation. >>>
      > >
      > > It would seem to me that there is no other alternative. Our
      brains
      > > are sealed inside our skulls and do not have direct contact with
      the
      > > world. Not only are our senses limited such that we cannot be
      sure
      > > that they are picking up all that may emitted by the object, but
      the
      > > inputs from our senses have to be interpreted and much of this
      [if
      > not
      > > all] is based upon learning. I would take it that the
      > term "noumenon"
      > > is coined simply to provide us with a word that is opposite to
      > > "phenomenon" ... in the same sense as one might say "the dark
      side
      > of
      > > the moon" on the basis that surely the moon has another side
      > although
      > > we cannot see it. I think I will change the name of my
      philosophy
      > > from NOOism to NOUism ...
      > >
      > > eduard
      >
      >
      >
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