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Re: My Story - thread continued

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  • philtft
    Steve ... respectful response. Thanks for your comments. I am pleased I have not offended you. It is not my intention. ... truth when everyone has their own
    Message 1 of 628 , Feb 19, 2002

      I would like to respond further to some of the points you made:

      >> A sincere thanks, Phil, for your response. I appreciate your
      respectful response.

      Thanks for your comments. I am pleased I have not offended you. It
      is not my intention.

      >> What am I to really believe? How can I know the real
      truth when everyone has their own opinion of the truth based on what
      they have been taught, what they choose to believe. Where is the
      objective proof of conservative Christianity's veracity? ………………
      Whose interpretation is correct? ………… You say you believe in
      eternal security - most Christians do not. Why? Differences of
      opinions in interpreting Scriptures.

      For sure: Objectively, the truth of the Bible cannot be proven.
      When I was saved, it was really about this issue. To me, it seemed
      clear at the time: either it was God's Word and therefore incredibly
      powerful – or it was a nice fantasy we could choose to ignore. I
      made my decision. I do not claim to fully understand it from cover
      to cover, but I do believe it's absolute truth from cover to cover,
      and pray God will give me all the understanding I need for my life
      and to help others.

      I agree there are differences in interpretations. Eternal security
      is an obvious issue. In believing what I do, there are certainly
      scriptures that difficult to fit in with that view. I therefore
      accept the possibility I may have a misunderstanding. It certainly
      is a personal faith view – I could not remain a Christian and sane if
      I did not believe I was eternally secure. However, there is clear
      spiritual backing for it.

      >> There are differences of opinion as to what constitutes sin.

      Not in God's view at all. Our understanding may differ. On
      homosexuality, I refuse to debate interpretation and translation.
      Debate does not resolve these kinds of issues – only revelation.
      What seems clear to me though, is the bible does not make any
      positive about the subject. Unlike the eternal security, I have not
      seen scriptures that support homosexuality in anyway.

      >> Acts of love and compassion.

      I would not want to suggest that you are not a Christian, and as such
      exhibit spiritual fruit. Such things however, do not confirm
      doctrinal correctness or that areas of our lives are not sinful. I
      can understand too, how feeling more comfortable with yourself has
      helped. In the end however, all our righteous acts are as dirty
      rags – as you know.

      >> the bigotry and lack of compassion from a great many Christians
      blocking God's love from these "gay Christians".

      I would also maintain that a bigoted church is an oxymoron – and my
      personal view is a much bigger oxymoron than a gay church. However,
      I do believe it is scriptural for a church to take a moral stance and
      to require it's members to acknowledge and deal with sin
      appropriately. I class both bigotry and homosexual acts and thoughts
      (not orientation) as sin.

      >> I know I love God and I know God loves me. To this day I pray God
      convicts me of the truth, the real truth, WHATEVER that may be. It
      may or may not be what you view it to be.

      Then, I too, pray that He will. We must all remain open to hear what
      we don't want to hear.

      >> Only an intellectually honest person would admit there is no easy
      answer to many of life's questions. That we each have to do the best
      we can with the information we have and decide for ourselves what
      makes the best sense to us. I agree faith is a huge component of

      See last verse in the book of Judges: deciding for ourselves is a
      recipe for disaster. I agree there are no easy answers. Things are
      very grey as I get older and not as black and white as in my youth.
      My faith evolves with time and an increase of understanding, but at
      each stage, I try to maintain Biblical anchor points for each belief
      I hold.

      >> In the final analysis, I am living my life the best I can and I
      stand before God (in my mind and heart as well as literally)
      painfully aware I am a sinner (in general) and in need of God's
      grace. I have and continue to pray to God to forgive me and accept
      me into his kingdom when I die. I fully accept my admission to
      heaven will be because of the great sacrifice of Christ and through
      nothing I have done myself.

      A paragraph I agree and support 120%. I'm there too and we are true
      brothers in the blood of Jesus. I love you, but feel you have made
      some wrong choices in your life and don't approve what you do.

      >> I seek God humbly on my knees and ask his mercy. If he still
      condemns me to eternal separation from him, what more can I do?

      Nothing more – none of us can. Praise God, His mercy is all we
      have. I don't believe God approves your lifestyle choice either.
      How that affects eternal judgement, I leave to Him. I trust we will
      meet in heaven. If you don't make it, then probably I won't either,
      so then I'll see you somewhere else.

      Much love

    • ctickle777
      I want to chime in alongside Debbie regarding Tem49. I do hope other male members will still respond to this man, as I know many of our members have
      Message 628 of 628 , Oct 1, 2009
        I want to chime in alongside Debbie regarding Tem49.

        I do hope other male members will still respond to this man, as I know many of our members have experienced the same struggle he has so bravely shared. It does appear he joined the group and then changed his mind shortly thereafter; however, all of the posts are viewable to non-members to my knowledge which means he can still read the response messages that post to the general discussion board.

        Members, if you feel as though your experience could be of comfort to him, I want to encourage you to respond even though he is no longer considered a member, as he may check the main page periodically.

        Tem49, if you are reading this, I want to recommend you seek counsel and guidance through Exodus ministries. Their website is http://exodusinternational.org/

        On a personal note, I believe sin is sin, and there is no sin scale by which we may compare your temptation to other temptations (i.e.: drinking, fornication, murder, slander, etc.). I also realize there is a good deal of shame in what you are feeling, but remember that God does not shame or "guilt" us as this is not the role of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts a person, but shame and guilt are not from Him - those feelings are from our enemy. It is clear by your account that you are convicted of these feelings and you have been able to turn from this temptation time and again.

        Just don't allow Satan to use shame to prevent you from seeking guidance, help, or Godly counsel from others who share in your struggle. :) I realize you are married and have much on the line right now; just admitting your struggle publicly was a huge first step because you have an arsenal of prayer partners now that you didn't have before. :) You are not alone. :) Also know that God loves you and we will continue to pray for you in the midst of your struggle, whether you choose to rejoin the group and respond, or not. I hope you will reconsider joining the group as there are many people here who can offer you their encouragement and support; however, if you really feel you need more immediate support, which is something this forum cannot offer, please contact Exodus as they have representatives all over the U.S. as well as local ministries who may assist you in a variety of ways in addition to maintaining your privacy.

        Blessings in Christ,


        --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "DebbieThurman" <debbie@...> wrote:
        > As a moderator, I am in the position to know who subscribes and unsubscribes from this group, and when. Some of you may get those notifications, too. What we can't know is why unless someone tells us.
        > The fellow who just joined and posted this comment is one of those who came and left pretty quickly. Was that because he did not get an instant response to his questions, thereby getting the impression that no one here really cared? Who can say?
        > While what I am posting here may not help him, unless he decides to come back, it may help others who are wondering whether or not anyone notices them or cares. Sometimes, it is simply the busyness of life that keeps us from responding right away to someone's needs. We can't beat ourselves up for that (the codependents or chronic rescuers will, of course). Most folks realize some patience is required of them when availing themselves of forums like this.
        > We must all be aware of the degree of desperation that prevails among the strugglers out there. Many want help or answers, and they want them yesterday. All in good time, if we put our trust in the Great Physician and Wonderful Counselor.
        > Food for thought.
        > Debbie
        > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "tem49" <tem49@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Thank you for allowing me to join this group.
        > >
        > > I am a Christian man who is struggling to deal with certain issues
        > > (homosexual desire) that have plagued me since I was a teenager but have
        > > just recently started to become more stronger now that I am grown.
        > > I have never had the chance to act out my desire to be with another guy
        > > even though I had made plans to. Each time I came close to doing what my
        > > desires wanted I pulled back and stopped myself from doing something I
        > > knew I would regret later. I fear though that some day I may not pull
        > > away from the temptation I put myself under and will give in. I know in
        > > my heart it's wrong and a sin but the physical desire I have some times
        > > causes me to forget all that and go ahead any way.
        > > Any case that's my story. I am also married and I would be sinning
        > > against my wife. I try to assure myself that I'm normal but I'm not so
        > > sure any more. I am not interested in a dominate role or even lust after
        > > guys. My desire is passive and submissive one. Without going into gross
        > > or sick details my urge is not oral or anything like that. not sure
        > > where this came from or why I desire this but I do at times and fear
        > > falling again. Have not done anything like this with another man or
        > > allowed myself to be touched that way. I desire anal sex or at least to
        > > have someone preform anal sex upon me. My desire comes and goes. At
        > > times the urge is so strong I can't stand it and at other times I can go
        > > weeks without thinking about it and than it starts up again and I post
        > > ads on Craigslist to find someone. I did that last week and had
        > > arrangement to meet someone but I was convicted of my sins and called
        > > it off again. This makes about the fourth time I have done that. Can any
        > > one here relate to what I'm going through?
        > > And yes, I am a Christian and know what the bible says about these
        > > things but it still isn't easy. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank
        > > you all.
        > >
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