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Re: Ex Gay Discussion Board Re: My Story

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  • David MacDonald
    Hi Steve I can certainly mirror guilt being there as a very very powerful blight on my life. When do I get it? When I look, linger, browse or dwell on my
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 18, 2002
      Hi Steve

      I can certainly mirror 'guilt' being there as a very very powerful blight on
      my life.

      When do I get it? When I look, linger, browse or dwell on my own strong
      urges to have physical intimacy with men and when I give in. It can be
      something as simple as looking through the dating page to see gay ads in the
      normal daily newspaper.

      For us married men with kids I believe God has placed us in a position of
      greatest responsibilty and care. When we are fulfilling it we feel great,
      enriched and free - when we're not we feel lousy.

      We have a particular problem of some sort of emotional lack that is not
      fulfilled in our family context. That problem may itself be grist for the
      mill and help us in our goal of self control. Faith, Patience and Love
      play a big part and God and our partner looks for that.

      I have often gone to my wife with a guilty face and a very evasive mood, but
      I know from experience that the subsequent and often angry confrontation is
      healthy. When I see the attention and focus in my wife's eyes - I understand
      there is a commitment from her and a passion to have things right. After all
      the eyes are the door to the soul. There is a great temptation for me to
      turn my back and hide.

      I believe we have a similar issue in our partnership with our Heavenly
      Father whose heart is for us and whose eyes are on us. Our guilt tries to
      make us evade him, but we must look into his eyes and see his anger ( if we
      have in fact wronged him) but in these same eyes that we look into we see
      the depth of his love, care and compassion for us. Things then become a bit
      clearer and that lousy guilt can be transformed into a childlike innocence.

      I feel as family men we need to submit to God and also our partners.
      Submission is a servant attitude that wants to please. Actions are
      different we can stray and do very wrong - but I believe if we come back
      with a will to serve even if it doesn't look that it will fulfill our needs,
      we will have a peace and contentment -- and we will be free of that guilt.

      Kind Rgds

      >From: person15417 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      >Reply-To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
      >To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Ex Gay Discussion Board Re: My Story
      >Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:20:06 -0000
      >A sincere thanks, Phil, for your response. I appreciate your
      >respectful response. As a former Baptist, I am very well aware of
      >the beliefs and teachings you mention. I am sincerely still torn
      >though over whether what I was taught is true or whether I have
      >received a new enlightenment from God.
      >To be sure, conservative Christianity is not the only religion that
      >warns of delusion and God's wrath. They cannot all be right,
      >especially if they contradict one another, and that is the crux of
      >my problem. What am I to really believe? How can I know the real
      >truth when everyone has their own opinion of the truth based on what
      >they have been taught, what they choose to believe. Where is the
      >objective proof of conservative Christianity's verasity? BTW, having
      >attended Bible College, I am well aware of the apparent "historical
      >and logical" arguments in favor of the "holiness" of the Bible.
      >Because I know all too well conservative Christians rely on the
      >Bible as their "objective" proof of their beliefs. But even if we
      >agree the "Christian Bible" IS the word of God, people interpret
      >God's word differently, ie, many denominations. Whose interpertation
      >is correct?
      >You say you believe in eternal security - most Christians do not.
      >Why? Differences of opinions in interpreting Scriptures.
      >I do not take lightly trambling the sacrifice of Christ for the sake
      >of continued sinning. And even though we all continue to sin no
      >matter how hard we try not to, here too, there is differences of
      >opinion as to what constitutes sin.
      >Unlike a lot of gays, I have the advantage of having seen both sides
      >of the gay argument - the conservative Christian side and the gay
      >affirming side.
      >One advantage of this list is I am talking to others who
      >have "struggled" with homosexuality, so at least they understand
      >where I have been and what I have experienced.
      >You say I am primarily seeking my own pleasure. Maybe so. Certainly
      >I have experienced pleasure since coming out. But some might call
      >that fulfillment as opposed to a word with a "negative conotation" -
      >You say I am not surrendering to Christ and yet since I have been
      >out I have been involved in more acts of love and compassion and
      >kindness than I have ever been in my life (and I am not refering to
      >sex acts!).
      >You say I am under a great delusion. Maybe so. But I have
      >experienced acts of love and given acts of love that seem to better
      >reflect the love of God since coming out.
      >I am not for one minute suggesting conservative Christians or ex-gay
      >Christians do not also experience God's love or exhibited great acts
      >of love and compassion. Without a doubt they do. But what I have
      >observed in my "gay church" (an oxymoron according to you) is God
      >reaching out to people who have been rejected by the "compassionate"
      >mainstream church. Maybe we kid ourselves and continue to sin, but
      >the bigotry and lack of compassion from a great many Christians was
      >blocking God's love from these "gay Christians".
      >I know I love God and I know God loves me. To this day I pray God
      >convicts me of the truth, the real truth, WHATEVER that may be. It
      >may or may not be what you view it to be.
      >As to the continued guilt I feel, you agree it is the Holy Spirit
      >that convicts me. Perhaps. But I also know that if one drills
      >anything into ones head enough (for example - homosexuality is an
      >abomination to God), they are going to feel guilt engaging in such
      >activity. That "brainwashing" was from a human's interpretation of
      >God's message, not necessarily from God himself. Once again I remind
      >you of other people who believe other things are from God that you
      >would say are not and who feel "guilt" about transgressing their
      >taught version of morality.
      >Only an intellectually honest person would admit there is no easy
      >answer to many of life's questions. That we each have to do the best
      >we can with the information we have and decide for ourselves what
      >makes the best sense to us. I agree faith is a huge component of
      >You believe what you believe because you have faith in what you were
      >taught. You believe that faith is confirmed in your heart and that
      >confirmation is from God. God bless you. I have the deepest respect
      >for you and all who are sincere in their beliefs. Far be it from me
      >to judge people's beliefs (and I am not accusing you fo this).
      >In the final analysis, I am living my life the best I can and I
      >stand before God (in my mind and heart as well as literally)
      >painfully aware I am a sinner (in general) and in need of God's
      >grace. I have and continue to pray to God to forgive me and accept
      >me into his kingdom when I die. I fully accept my admission to
      >heaven will be because of the great sacrifice of Christ and through
      >nothing I have done myself.
      >Perhaps in this lifetime God will make it crystal clear to me that
      >homosexual behavior is not his will and he will give me the courage
      >to abandon it. Or perhaps he will confirm in me that humans have a
      >narrow view of who he is - that God has an all consuming
      >unconditional love for man and that as long as people sincerely seek
      >him he surely will not reject them and that hangups about one's
      >sexuality are human manufactured hangups and not God inspired
      >teachings. That God's primary will is to love one's self and your
      >fellow man and not to condemn people because of differences of
      >opinion regarding morality.
      >I could go on and on. But we all believe what we choose to believe
      >and when we die, the truth will not be hidden by the veil of flesh
      >and we will then know for sure the mysteries of the universe.
      >I seek God humbly on my knees and ask his mercy. If he still
      >condemns me to eternal separation from him, what more can I do?
      >In sincere Christian love,
      >--- In exgaydiscussionboard@y..., philtft <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > > My belief is this:
      > > >
      > > > Either it is not a sin at all for a person with a homosexual
      > > > orientation to be sexually intimate with a person of their own
      > > > gender, or if it is, it's like any other sin - God will
      > > that sin if you ask him to.
      > >
      > > You asked for a response, shame no one gave you one. Yes you're
      > > right - it is just like any sin, God will forgive. But the Bible
      > > says we should not treat God's forgiveness as if it cost nothing.
      > > Jesus suffered and died that we might have that forgiveness. It
      > > Him everything, should we trample that under foot? The New
      > > does not major on obedience to law, but obedience to love. We
      > > Him because He first loved us, and if we love Him, we keep His
      > > commandments.
      > >
      > > You seem to be happier and more fulfilled with your life now, yet
      > > still guilty, you say. I agree with those who say this is the
      > > Conviction of the Holy Spirit, but He may not strive with you
      > > forever. Inside of you, you know right from wrong on this. It's
      > > just that you choose not to die to self, that Christ can live in
      > > you. What does it profit a man if he gains all he desires in this
      > > life but looses his soul? You seem to be living for your own
      > > pleasures, rather than to please the One who purchased your life
      > > His blood. Do you belong to yourself or to Him? What did that
      > > commitment you made to Him really mean, not to mention the
      > > to your wife.
      > >
      > > Gay Christians - an oxymoron? No! - sadly all Christians
      > > to commit sins, but we ought not to "continue in" sin, or glorify
      > > and call it "not sin" when it is sin. This is the delusion
      >of "gay
      > > churches". Now gay church - that is an oxymoron!
      > >
      > > You seem desperately seeking for approval of your current
      > > and what you have done, either from folks here, or from God
      > > Whatever response you find here, you will not find approval from
      > > or His Word, for your actions. He is looking for confession,
      > > repentance and renounciation. It would be nice to have total
      > > as a result, but whether that comes or not - you are called to
      > > holiness, just as I am, and all Christians are. If that's a tough
      > > life for some of us - so be it.
      > >
      > > I cannot persuade you of my viewpoint. Only the Word and the
      > > can do that, but remember those who persist in believing lies are
      > > sent great delusion - beware. Fear Him who has the power to cast
      > > your soul into hell.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > We can discuss the idea of eternal security another time.
      > > >
      > > Maybe, for the record I believe in it. But using it as an excuse
      > > go on sinning? - I believe Paul said: heaven forbid. The
      > > life is about experiencing a foretaste of our eternal life here on
      > > Earth (Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven). You must
      > > a great distortion of the mind of Christ, if you believe
      > > living in sin, and trying to justify it as not sin, is living a
      > > foretaste of eternal life. I'd say you are dangerously close to
      > > great delusion, if not there already.
      > >
      > > Phil

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