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Re: [ExGDBd] Pedophilia and some other questions

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  • Inge Anderson
    ... And I agree with the intent of your post. My reply wasn t intended to disagree with your post. ... Of course not. But then none of us have characters
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
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      At 05:45 PM 10/2/2003 +0000, Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II wrote:
      >I was referring to the attraction when I said, "the person who HAS
      >pedophilia." My question was pretty simple, or at least I thought it
      >was: Do we do as Tim suggested and do the modern American equivalent
      >of stoning the person to death or do we treat him the way Jesus
      >treated the woman caught in adultery.

      And I agree with the intent of your post. My reply wasn't intended to
      disagree with your post.

      >If you think that it's perfectly acceptable and normal to have either
      >same-sex attraction or an attraction to children (or, in the case of
      >the person who posted, a pederastic attraction), then I'd like you to
      >show me how such attractions are consistent with God's created design
      >as found in Genesis.

      Of course not. But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
      design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in our behalf.
      That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except in the
      grace of Christ. And the one who has been forgiven much, loves much.

      In His grace,
      Inge



      Inge Anderson <inge@...>
      *********************************************************
      Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
      Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
      *********************************************************
      A bruised reed shall he not break....
      Isaiah 42:3
      *********************************************************
    • Tim Way
      Hi Inge, Ive watched your posts for some time now and I m appalled by your red-eyed contentions you like to usurp over other people when they differ from your
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
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        Hi Inge,

        Ive watched your posts for some time now and I'm appalled by your red-eyed contentions you like to usurp over other people when they differ from your view point even a little. You've criticized me for my weaknesses and my convictions and that publicly for all to see. Why dont you practice what you preach and remove the log from your own eye first before removing the splinter from mine. I have in no way condemned this other brother, neither publicly nor privily. Ive merely expressed to the best of my ability my disdain for his sin, not the sinner himself. Tim Way

        Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
        Tim,

        I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in reference
        to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his lonely
        struggle. Your attitude does NOT demonstrate the spirit of Christ. There
        was no basis for your post on "child molesters" except this man's sharing.
        The Lord Jesus had strong words to say about one who would call his brother
        a "fool," and you used the word "vermin"!!

        Please come to your senses & actually *read* what's on this forum instead
        of sending in wild, emotional posts! (Your reaction is *exactly* the same
        as many straight people who react to the very thought of "homosexuality"
        with so much emotion that they don't even hear that the person is living a
        godly life and does NOT engage in same-gender sex! To them *you* are the
        "vermin"!)

        There IS NO CHILD MOLESTER ON THIS FORUM! The subject matter in your mind
        is of your own making, Please don't blame anyone else for it.

        A brother in Christ shared his attraction to under-age boys -- something
        that is rather common among gay men, I might add. He shared that he HAS NOT
        given in to the temptation.

        Can you say the same regarding your attraction to men? (Maybe you're only
        attracted to men older than yourself?)

        Unfortunately it is human nature to be repulsed by temptations different
        from our own. But the Bible clearly condemns *all* sex outside of marriage
        -- and certainly sex among members of the same gender. So we're *all* in
        the same boat here -- all condemned to die with no hope of heaven EXCEPT
        for the love of Christ who died for EACH OF US -- no matter from what
        directions our temptations come.

        This is the second so-called support forum on which I've seen homosexually
        oriented men jump with condemnation on someone who shared a struggle with
        attraction to under-age boys. Interesting how those who seek understanding
        and compassion for themselves have none to offer those who have a slightly
        different struggle.

        You seem so certain that someone else's temptation is worse than your
        sin. In the process, you may very well be offending "one of these little
        ones" of whom Christ spoke. Remember that when we come to Christ, we are
        "born again." Someone just born is a *child* of God for whom the Lord has
        the greatest solicitude.

        You cannot make yourself more holy by condemning someone with a different
        struggle. Holiness is demonstrated by showing a spirit like that of Jesus
        who did NOT condemn a struggling sinner.

        When we *really* sense the wonderful gift of Christ's salvation, we shall
        be so filled with gratitude that He would save a sinner like ME, that we
        will not feel superior to others but reach out to them with love -- like
        one beggar taking another beggar by the hand and showing him where there is
        an abundant source of food.

        Jesus made it clear that He could do nothing for those who felt themselves
        holier than other sinners -- "not so far gone" --and wrapped their robes of
        'sanctity' about themselves. He said that the man who cried, "God be
        merciful to me, a sinner!" went to his home justified. And without His
        justification, we have no hope. Our robes of "sanctity" are but filthy rags
        in His eyes.

        May He be merciful to you and me!

        In His grace,
        Inge

        PS Christ can even forgive those who *have* molested children. He's saved
        mass murderers before -- like King Manasseh, for instance. He suffers with
        the victims of abuse, even while He's ready to save the abuser.


        At 11:41 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
        >Hi Mike and Inge,
        >
        >I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the
        >thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with
        >hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick to my
        >stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who take care
        >of this injustice by purging these demented predators from the prisons.
        >This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very knowledge of it
        >from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm not
        >condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my mind as
        >I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge. That sin
        >is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain it.
        >It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest of us who
        >are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of depravity here
        >I beg you. May you come to your senses before this ministry is turned
        >aside to the vermin.Tim Way

        Inge Anderson <inge@...>
        *********************************************************
        Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
        Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
        *********************************************************
        A bruised reed shall he not break....
        Isaiah 42:3
        *********************************************************


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      • Tim Way
        Hi Inge, There you go puting words in my mouth again and / or twisting the words that I have said before to say something that I didnt mean at all. Shame on
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 2, 2003
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          Hi Inge,

          There you go puting words in my mouth again and / or twisting the words that I have said before to say something that I didnt mean at all. Shame on you, you contentous girl. Tim Way

          Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
          Tim,

          I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in reference
          to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his lonely
          struggle. Your attitude does NOT demonstrate the spirit of Christ. There
          was no basis for your post on "child molesters" except this man's sharing.
          The Lord Jesus had strong words to say about one who would call his brother
          a "fool," and you used the word "vermin"!!

          Please come to your senses & actually *read* what's on this forum instead
          of sending in wild, emotional posts! (Your reaction is *exactly* the same
          as many straight people who react to the very thought of "homosexuality"
          with so much emotion that they don't even hear that the person is living a
          godly life and does NOT engage in same-gender sex! To them *you* are the
          "vermin"!)

          There IS NO CHILD MOLESTER ON THIS FORUM! The subject matter in your mind
          is of your own making, Please don't blame anyone else for it.

          A brother in Christ shared his attraction to under-age boys -- something
          that is rather common among gay men, I might add. He shared that he HAS NOT
          given in to the temptation.

          Can you say the same regarding your attraction to men? (Maybe you're only
          attracted to men older than yourself?)

          Unfortunately it is human nature to be repulsed by temptations different
          from our own. But the Bible clearly condemns *all* sex outside of marriage
          -- and certainly sex among members of the same gender. So we're *all* in
          the same boat here -- all condemned to die with no hope of heaven EXCEPT
          for the love of Christ who died for EACH OF US -- no matter from what
          directions our temptations come.

          This is the second so-called support forum on which I've seen homosexually
          oriented men jump with condemnation on someone who shared a struggle with
          attraction to under-age boys. Interesting how those who seek understanding
          and compassion for themselves have none to offer those who have a slightly
          different struggle.

          You seem so certain that someone else's temptation is worse than your
          sin. In the process, you may very well be offending "one of these little
          ones" of whom Christ spoke. Remember that when we come to Christ, we are
          "born again." Someone just born is a *child* of God for whom the Lord has
          the greatest solicitude.

          You cannot make yourself more holy by condemning someone with a different
          struggle. Holiness is demonstrated by showing a spirit like that of Jesus
          who did NOT condemn a struggling sinner.

          When we *really* sense the wonderful gift of Christ's salvation, we shall
          be so filled with gratitude that He would save a sinner like ME, that we
          will not feel superior to others but reach out to them with love -- like
          one beggar taking another beggar by the hand and showing him where there is
          an abundant source of food.

          Jesus made it clear that He could do nothing for those who felt themselves
          holier than other sinners -- "not so far gone" --and wrapped their robes of
          'sanctity' about themselves. He said that the man who cried, "God be
          merciful to me, a sinner!" went to his home justified. And without His
          justification, we have no hope. Our robes of "sanctity" are but filthy rags
          in His eyes.

          May He be merciful to you and me!

          In His grace,
          Inge

          PS Christ can even forgive those who *have* molested children. He's saved
          mass murderers before -- like King Manasseh, for instance. He suffers with
          the victims of abuse, even while He's ready to save the abuser.


          At 11:41 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
          >Hi Mike and Inge,
          >
          >I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the
          >thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with
          >hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick to my
          >stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who take care
          >of this injustice by purging these demented predators from the prisons.
          >This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very knowledge of it
          >from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm not
          >condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my mind as
          >I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge. That sin
          >is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain it.
          >It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest of us who
          >are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of depravity here
          >I beg you. May you come to your senses before this ministry is turned
          >aside to the vermin.Tim Way

          Inge Anderson <inge@...>
          *********************************************************
          Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
          Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
          *********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
          Isaiah 42:3
          *********************************************************


          Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          exgaydiscussionboard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Questions on the group? contact founder directly at: ncxds@...

          The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
          NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries

          Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:

          Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List: <http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat: <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>




          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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          The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • patrick
          Man you sound like you have it pretty tough, but seem to be whiteknucklilng it now. I do not post here all that much and if u have been reading some of the
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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            Man you sound like you have it pretty tough, but seem to be
            whiteknucklilng it now. I do not post here all that much and if u
            have been reading some of the reactions to ur post u willunderstand
            why. If you would be intertested in some other boards that won't nail
            you email me at patrickkennnedy@... patrick
          • Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II
            Finally, something on which we agree. There is a tendency among many Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that it must necessarily be
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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              Finally, something on which we agree. There is a tendency among many
              Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that it
              must necessarily be consistent with God's created design. It is my
              contention that every aspect of creation was damaged by that first
              sin in the Garden of Eden and/or subsequent sin (different ethnic
              groups, for example, came about as a result of that incident at the
              tower of Babel).

              --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
              <inge@g...> wrote:
              But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
              > design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in our
              behalf.
              > That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except
              in the
              > grace of Christ.
              >
              > In His grace,
              > Inge
            • Jill
              Hi Christa, these are words of Life...i know you didn t write this to me, but thanks. Jill ... voicing this issue with the group. Although it is hard for some
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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                Hi Christa,

                these are words of Life...i know you didn't write this to me, but
                thanks.

                Jill

                --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Christa Tickle
                <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
                > Hi theslink. I wanted to let you know that I applaud you for
                voicing this issue with the group. Although it is hard for some of
                us to understand, it is my belief that sin is sin is sin. It is all
                sin. Homosexuality, fornication, pedophilia...all sin. We can use
                other terms to describe it...addiction, obsession, lifestyle,
                preference, but in God's truth, it is sin. Bringing this out into
                the open with your Christian friends is the first step to freedom
                from this bondage to sin. What you are under is very much a bondage.
                The dictionary defines bondage as: the state of one who is bound as
                a slave or servant;a state of subjection to a force, power, or
                influence. This is what you are under right now...the influence of
                Satan and the bondage of the sin that originally started with your
                negative experiences in childhood. I am leading up to something, so
                bear with me, I think this will be fairly long.
                >
                > I first want to make sure you have accepted Jesus Christ as your
                personal Lord and Savior...you have asked the Lord to forgive you
                and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. You have accepted Christ's
                death on the cross as payment for your sin...you were a sinner, born
                in Adam (in Adam's lineage) and destined to die in Adam. In other
                words, you, like everyone else, was born on your way to hell to live
                eternally apart from God. The only way we are able to live eternally
                in the presence of a holy, perfect, and righteous God is to accept
                the only person who can bridge that sin gap on our behalf...Jesus!
                We cannot work our way into heaven. Our BEHAVIOR does not determine
                our eternal destiny...all of us were on our way to hell according to
                Scripture (the Bible). God sent a gift in the form of His son...that
                whosoever believes in Him (Christ Jesus) will have everlasting
                life!!! Now, if you believe Jesus died for your sins...and you have
                asked for forgiveness for your sins, two things have
                > occurred in your life. 1. You have been forgiven and your name
                has been written in the Lamb's book of Life! 2. Your Spirit that was
                once dead (in Adam) has now been brought to life! Two things have
                happened! The Spirit of God Himself embodies a person who has
                accepted Jesus Christ! (1 Corin. 6:19; 3:16) There are only two
                types of people in the world...those who are "in Adam" and those who
                are "in Christ." It is the sinner versus the saint. Just as our
                physical characteristics were determined at birth by our biological
                parents, our spiritual characteristics were determined at birth by
                our spiritual father "the prince of the power of the air" Satan
                (Ephesians 2:1-2). You did not become a sinner...you were BORN a
                sinner because you were born in Adam (Romans 5:11-19). Your birth
                determines identity! You were born hostile and alienated from God
                (Colossians 1:21), a child of wrath (Eph. 2:1,5), condemned (Romans
                6:23), spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1,5), an enemy of God (Romans 5:8-
                10), and a
                > slave of sin (Romans 6:17).
                >
                > When you invited Jesus into your life, you were reborn! A NEW
                BIRTH!!! (1 Peter 1:23). You were transferred out of Satan's kingdom
                (Adam's lineage) and into God's kingdom (Jesus' lineage). Read
                Colossians 1:13 You went from being a caterpillar to a
                butterfly...and butterflies should no longer crawl around with the
                worms! But that is what most of us do...although we have been
                transformed into beautiful butterflies, we often still behave like
                worms, hang out with worms, and continue to live the life of a worm!
                You now have all of Christ's spiritual characteristics because you
                are now "in Christ." (1 Corinthians 12:27; 1 Cor. 6:17; 1 Corin.
                12:27) You are a member of Christ's body...you are united with the
                Lord (one spirit). You are God's child (John 1:12). You are complete
                in Christ. (Colossians 2:10). You are born of God, the evil one
                cannot touch you. (1 John 5:18)
                >
                > You WERE a sinner. Now, you are a SAINT! Do you still sin? Yes,
                because your body (flesh) and your Spirit are at war! You are no
                longer a sinner...you are a saint who sins! There is a HUGE
                difference here. Romans 7:21-23 states: "I find then the principle
                that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. For I
                joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I [the new
                creation in Christ] see a different law in the members of my body,
                waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of
                the law of sin which is in my members." There is a conflict with
                the new creation in Christ...and the power that dwells in us. We are
                not evil...the evil is the law of sin. Paul calls this war...and it
                is definitely war. We are righteous, holy, and blameless before God
                in Christ Jesus...but we don't always act, think, or feel that way.
                This is why we have to reprogram our minds to truth. Where do the
                thoughts come from? Satan! You are not waging war against
                > yourself...these thoughts are coming from Satan. At the same
                time, you are allowing them to invade your mind...they in turn, will
                invade your body. Once we receive the thoughts and they are ours,
                the sinning is a product of those thoughts. Satan knows our old ways
                as he was instrumental in their programming! We can't stop him from
                giving us thoughts but we do not have to receive those thoughts
                because those thoughts are LIES! The traumatic experiences of your
                childhood have been seared into your mind, your memory banks, and
                they became part of your flesh: meeting your own needs with your own
                resources. These thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that influence
                your everyday existence are a direct result of your experiences.
                Satan, THE DECEIVER, will give you thoughts that keep all of your
                flesh in an uproar. You still consider yourself a homosexual,
                pedofile, sinner, etc. You may even consider yourself unworthy of
                being loved by someone heterosexual. You can overcome your past and
                flesh
                > patterns but it will not happen overnight. You must reprogram
                your mind...your personal computer...to absolute TRUTH. How do you
                do this? You have to believe God will take over this battle for you
                and through you. You just have to allow Him to fight the battle. You
                have to first choose by your own free will to allow Christ to fight
                this battle for you. You have to give this to him every time you
                embark upon a struggle, a thought, a desire, a sensation, a emotion,
                a hurt, a feeling, an urge! You must set your mind to truth...God
                lives in you. God's strength can enable you to make the choice to
                flee the thoughts Satan presents to you on a daily basis. Satan's
                goal is to deceive and destroy each of us. Every time Satan offers
                you a choice...even if it is in singular, first-person format [I
                want this, I want that, this urge is too hard for "me" to bear]
                remember that Satan is knocking on the threshold of your mind and
                thoughts. Block him out. Rebuke him out! When Satan offers us a
                > choice, a thought, a temptation...God opens a door of escape. You
                don't do this in your own strength. YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THIS apart from
                Jesus Christ. Christ is your strength. Christ will do it FOR YOU.
                How? You pray...when the thoughts come...ask Jesus to do it for
                you...that you can't do it. You can't resist on your own. You pursue
                the right course of action: You stop, you refuse, you turn, and you
                head the other direction, all the while believing by faith that it
                is His life through you, that He is your source, and that you are
                drawing from the power that now lives inside you!!! I used to love
                alcohol in college...I still have an occasional desire to partake
                and every time the thought enters my mind, God provides a means of
                escape. I decide "I need a drink." Satan introduces the thought...I
                then get up to go to the kitchen. (Chance one...refuse to go to the
                kitchen to look for a drink) I open the refrigerator (deliverance
                opportunity #2 as I could resist opening the refrigerator in
                > my search) I don't see any beer in the fridge so I then decide I
                could make a quick run to the grocery store (escape three) I go get
                the keys (escape 4) I get in my car (escape 5) I get to the grocery
                store (escape 6) I bring the beer up to the counter to purchase it
                (escape 7...I could leave the store at this point before indulging
                in a drink, empty-handed, and return home with Coca-Cola instead).
                Corinthians 10:13 It is a battle starting in our minds...what we do
                with those initial thoughts truly has an outcome on whether or not
                we choose to follow through or deny the act of sin. Oftentimes, I
                will argue with myself...I could do this, but I know that is wrong.
                It is a constant battle. Until we leave our earthly bodies behind,
                we will experience this battle.
                >
                > You have a NEW identity. Your identity is now in Christ. You are
                now an heir to the throne of Jesus and accepted by God, not because
                of your actions, thoughts, or sin...but because of Jesus! The only
                sin that will ever send a man to hell is his disbelief. The gift of
                salvation (Jesus) is there...it is just there for those who choose
                to accept it. You are already reconciled with God. Your behavior
                does not make you who you are. Your BEHAVIOR does not change your
                identity!!! (Romans 5:6, 8, 10) The old you is gone now...and Christ
                has replaced the old you with His very Spirit.
                >
                > Behavior does not change until a person's identity changes. In
                other words, our belief about ourselves determines our behavior.
                Satan wants us to believe his lie that our behavior tells us what to
                believe about ourselves. WRONG. Your identity does not come from
                what you have done...in the past. Nor does it come from what you did
                today or do tomorrow. It comes from what God has done for us.
                >
                > Your personal computer (brain) has been programmed over the years
                of emotional and mental abuse and rejection through no fault of your
                own. For whatever reasons, your parents also had some pattern of
                thinking and belief system that unfortunately led to their own
                mistakes. What I think the world has us do to "solve" our problems
                is receive counseling. We're told to talk about our problems without
                considering the simple fact that our underlying need is to be
                reconciled with God. We then need to reprogram our flesh
                patterns...reprogram our way of thinking to TRUTH! You have been led
                to believe that you are unworthy, unlovable, undesirable,
                inadequate, inferior, worthless, etc. These are some of the
                patterns have formed and have been embedded in your brain
                throughout your life, courtesy of Satan and his craftiness. Remember
                that your parents were victims of this process too...those who
                abused you, those you partnered with over the years, those who were
                living with the same underlying
                > need for acceptance, love, forgiveness, understanding,
                significance, security...were all experiencing the flesh. Each of us
                has a flesh pattern...a way of thinking, doing, believing, and
                behaving.
                >
                > What you must do to achieve freedom from this bondage is to
                reprogram your mind to the TRUTH of your identity in Christ. You are
                a SAINT! You are completely accepted by Christ and God. Your
                identity does not come from what other people say or think about
                you, nor does it come from what they do to you. Your identity comes
                from what God says and thinks and BELIEVES about you. God sees you
                as a SAINT. You are His precious child, whom He loves beyond
                measure. Nothing you do will ever change God's love for you. He
                wants for you to realize your identity in Him so He can free you
                from this bondage. Your behavior will not change until your thoughts
                and flesh patterns are realized and changed. This is what the Bible
                means when it refers to renewing the mind to truth. (Romans
                12:2) "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but
                be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able
                to test and approve what God's will is–his good, pleasing and
                perfect will."
                >
                > Your emotions are not always true...but they are real. What you
                are feeling, experiencing, desiring...is all a product of your way
                of thinking and your flesh pattern. I recommend you read "Lifetime
                Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. Also check out "Classic Christianity" by
                Bob George. These two resources may not touch on these thoughts in
                your mind but they will help you to reprogram your mind to truth. I
                will be praying for you. Remember that although it is hard for you
                to share your struggles here in the forum and elsewhere...Satan will
                not have a stronghold over you as confession is a first step to
                freedom. I'm not suggesting you blast your congregation with your
                experiences...but finding those who love you and know you are
                special, worthy, and a terrific child of God will be able to pick
                you up and pray with you when your struggles are at their peak. You
                may go through many ups and downs but eventually, I believe God will
                help you find total freedom from these desires. I will type up a
                > list of verses I want you to read each day. (I did this for
                several months before my self-esteem and belief changed...it was a
                necessary thing for me and although I didn't struggle with
                homosexual desires, I too had an emotionally abusive childhood) I'll
                try to get the verses out by this weekend. Read them aloud, looking
                at yourself in the mirror...as much as possible. It will be tough
                and you'll feel awkward...but after time, your mind WILL be renewed
                to TRUTH. And one day, you will wake up and your desires will seem
                so foreign to you because you will believe you are who God says you
                are! This is how my behavior changed. This is how my detrimental
                thoughts and internal depression was driven away. Now, when someone
                offends me, hurts my feelings, or I feel the need to act contrary to
                my identity, I read my Bible verses! "[You] are free from any charge
                against [you]. Romans 8:31-34
                >
                > We will be praying for you.
                >
                > Love and prayers,
                > Christa
                >
                >
                > theslink@J... wrote:
                >
                > I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have
                had homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age
                boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had
                problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has
                kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a
                big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at
                porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about
                recovering for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions
                and none of the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone
                recommend a title about pedophilia?
                >
                > Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that
                the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really
                as easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I
                was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
                sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I
                still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection
                by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on
                changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.
                Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
                under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I
                have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have
                problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a
                week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal.
                Can anybody offer any words of advice??
                >
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                >
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                > NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
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                > Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
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              • Christa Tickle
                Thank you for your encouragement, Jill. It has taken me a very, very long (and painful) time to understand what much of the Bible means, particularly how
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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                  Thank you for your encouragement, Jill. It has taken me a very, very long (and painful) time to understand what much of the Bible means, particularly how Jesus' death and resurrection applies to my life; thankfully, through lots of mentoring, the Lord has opened my mind to much truth and I am glad He has allowed me the privilege of sharing some of the things He has revealed to me over the years. If you want to learn more about reprogramming your mind to the truth of your identity in Christ, I strongly suggest Anabel Gillham's book "The Confident Woman." It is a masterpiece straight from God and it has proven to be a critical resource in the "reprogramming" of my own mind. Prepare to read it over and over again...it is so full of Godly wisdom and insight you will want to re-read it as soon as you finish the final chapter! Hope you have a great weekend!

                  Love in Him,

                  Christa


                  Jill <jdo52@...> wrote:
                  Hi Christa,

                  these are words of Life...i know you didn't write this to me, but
                  thanks.

                  Jill

                  --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Christa Tickle
                  <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
                  > Hi theslink. I wanted to let you know that I applaud you for
                  voicing this issue with the group. Although it is hard for some of
                  us to understand, it is my belief that sin is sin is sin. It is all
                  sin. Homosexuality, fornication, pedophilia...all sin. We can use
                  other terms to describe it...addiction, obsession, lifestyle,
                  preference, but in God's truth, it is sin. Bringing this out into
                  the open with your Christian friends is the first step to freedom
                  from this bondage to sin. What you are under is very much a bondage.
                  The dictionary defines bondage as: the state of one who is bound as
                  a slave or servant;a state of subjection to a force, power, or
                  influence. This is what you are under right now...the influence of
                  Satan and the bondage of the sin that originally started with your
                  negative experiences in childhood. I am leading up to something, so
                  bear with me, I think this will be fairly long.
                  >
                  > I first want to make sure you have accepted Jesus Christ as your
                  personal Lord and Savior...you have asked the Lord to forgive you
                  and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. You have accepted Christ's
                  death on the cross as payment for your sin...you were a sinner, born
                  in Adam (in Adam's lineage) and destined to die in Adam. In other
                  words, you, like everyone else, was born on your way to hell to live
                  eternally apart from God. The only way we are able to live eternally
                  in the presence of a holy, perfect, and righteous God is to accept
                  the only person who can bridge that sin gap on our behalf...Jesus!
                  We cannot work our way into heaven. Our BEHAVIOR does not determine
                  our eternal destiny...all of us were on our way to hell according to
                  Scripture (the Bible). God sent a gift in the form of His son...that
                  whosoever believes in Him (Christ Jesus) will have everlasting
                  life!!! Now, if you believe Jesus died for your sins...and you have
                  asked for forgiveness for your sins, two things have
                  > occurred in your life. 1. You have been forgiven and your name
                  has been written in the Lamb's book of Life! 2. Your Spirit that was
                  once dead (in Adam) has now been brought to life! Two things have
                  happened! The Spirit of God Himself embodies a person who has
                  accepted Jesus Christ! (1 Corin. 6:19; 3:16) There are only two
                  types of people in the world...those who are "in Adam" and those who
                  are "in Christ." It is the sinner versus the saint. Just as our
                  physical characteristics were determined at birth by our biological
                  parents, our spiritual characteristics were determined at birth by
                  our spiritual father "the prince of the power of the air" Satan
                  (Ephesians 2:1-2). You did not become a sinner...you were BORN a
                  sinner because you were born in Adam (Romans 5:11-19). Your birth
                  determines identity! You were born hostile and alienated from God
                  (Colossians 1:21), a child of wrath (Eph. 2:1,5), condemned (Romans
                  6:23), spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1,5), an enemy of God (Romans 5:8-
                  10), and a
                  > slave of sin (Romans 6:17).
                  >
                  > When you invited Jesus into your life, you were reborn! A NEW
                  BIRTH!!! (1 Peter 1:23). You were transferred out of Satan's kingdom
                  (Adam's lineage) and into God's kingdom (Jesus' lineage). Read
                  Colossians 1:13 You went from being a caterpillar to a
                  butterfly...and butterflies should no longer crawl around with the
                  worms! But that is what most of us do...although we have been
                  transformed into beautiful butterflies, we often still behave like
                  worms, hang out with worms, and continue to live the life of a worm!
                  You now have all of Christ's spiritual characteristics because you
                  are now "in Christ." (1 Corinthians 12:27; 1 Cor. 6:17; 1 Corin.
                  12:27) You are a member of Christ's body...you are united with the
                  Lord (one spirit). You are God's child (John 1:12). You are complete
                  in Christ. (Colossians 2:10). You are born of God, the evil one
                  cannot touch you. (1 John 5:18)
                  >
                  > You WERE a sinner. Now, you are a SAINT! Do you still sin? Yes,
                  because your body (flesh) and your Spirit are at war! You are no
                  longer a sinner...you are a saint who sins! There is a HUGE
                  difference here. Romans 7:21-23 states: "I find then the principle
                  that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. For I
                  joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I [the new
                  creation in Christ] see a different law in the members of my body,
                  waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of
                  the law of sin which is in my members." There is a conflict with
                  the new creation in Christ...and the power that dwells in us. We are
                  not evil...the evil is the law of sin. Paul calls this war...and it
                  is definitely war. We are righteous, holy, and blameless before God
                  in Christ Jesus...but we don't always act, think, or feel that way.
                  This is why we have to reprogram our minds to truth. Where do the
                  thoughts come from? Satan! You are not waging war against
                  > yourself...these thoughts are coming from Satan. At the same
                  time, you are allowing them to invade your mind...they in turn, will
                  invade your body. Once we receive the thoughts and they are ours,
                  the sinning is a product of those thoughts. Satan knows our old ways
                  as he was instrumental in their programming! We can't stop him from
                  giving us thoughts but we do not have to receive those thoughts
                  because those thoughts are LIES! The traumatic experiences of your
                  childhood have been seared into your mind, your memory banks, and
                  they became part of your flesh: meeting your own needs with your own
                  resources. These thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that influence
                  your everyday existence are a direct result of your experiences.
                  Satan, THE DECEIVER, will give you thoughts that keep all of your
                  flesh in an uproar. You still consider yourself a homosexual,
                  pedofile, sinner, etc. You may even consider yourself unworthy of
                  being loved by someone heterosexual. You can overcome your past and
                  flesh
                  > patterns but it will not happen overnight. You must reprogram
                  your mind...your personal computer...to absolute TRUTH. How do you
                  do this? You have to believe God will take over this battle for you
                  and through you. You just have to allow Him to fight the battle. You
                  have to first choose by your own free will to allow Christ to fight
                  this battle for you. You have to give this to him every time you
                  embark upon a struggle, a thought, a desire, a sensation, a emotion,
                  a hurt, a feeling, an urge! You must set your mind to truth...God
                  lives in you. God's strength can enable you to make the choice to
                  flee the thoughts Satan presents to you on a daily basis. Satan's
                  goal is to deceive and destroy each of us. Every time Satan offers
                  you a choice...even if it is in singular, first-person format [I
                  want this, I want that, this urge is too hard for "me" to bear]
                  remember that Satan is knocking on the threshold of your mind and
                  thoughts. Block him out. Rebuke him out! When Satan offers us a
                  > choice, a thought, a temptation...God opens a door of escape. You
                  don't do this in your own strength. YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THIS apart from
                  Jesus Christ. Christ is your strength. Christ will do it FOR YOU.
                  How? You pray...when the thoughts come...ask Jesus to do it for
                  you...that you can't do it. You can't resist on your own. You pursue
                  the right course of action: You stop, you refuse, you turn, and you
                  head the other direction, all the while believing by faith that it
                  is His life through you, that He is your source, and that you are
                  drawing from the power that now lives inside you!!! I used to love
                  alcohol in college...I still have an occasional desire to partake
                  and every time the thought enters my mind, God provides a means of
                  escape. I decide "I need a drink." Satan introduces the thought...I
                  then get up to go to the kitchen. (Chance one...refuse to go to the
                  kitchen to look for a drink) I open the refrigerator (deliverance
                  opportunity #2 as I could resist opening the refrigerator in
                  > my search) I don't see any beer in the fridge so I then decide I
                  could make a quick run to the grocery store (escape three) I go get
                  the keys (escape 4) I get in my car (escape 5) I get to the grocery
                  store (escape 6) I bring the beer up to the counter to purchase it
                  (escape 7...I could leave the store at this point before indulging
                  in a drink, empty-handed, and return home with Coca-Cola instead).
                  Corinthians 10:13 It is a battle starting in our minds...what we do
                  with those initial thoughts truly has an outcome on whether or not
                  we choose to follow through or deny the act of sin. Oftentimes, I
                  will argue with myself...I could do this, but I know that is wrong.
                  It is a constant battle. Until we leave our earthly bodies behind,
                  we will experience this battle.
                  >
                  > You have a NEW identity. Your identity is now in Christ. You are
                  now an heir to the throne of Jesus and accepted by God, not because
                  of your actions, thoughts, or sin...but because of Jesus! The only
                  sin that will ever send a man to hell is his disbelief. The gift of
                  salvation (Jesus) is there...it is just there for those who choose
                  to accept it. You are already reconciled with God. Your behavior
                  does not make you who you are. Your BEHAVIOR does not change your
                  identity!!! (Romans 5:6, 8, 10) The old you is gone now...and Christ
                  has replaced the old you with His very Spirit.
                  >
                  > Behavior does not change until a person's identity changes. In
                  other words, our belief about ourselves determines our behavior.
                  Satan wants us to believe his lie that our behavior tells us what to
                  believe about ourselves. WRONG. Your identity does not come from
                  what you have done...in the past. Nor does it come from what you did
                  today or do tomorrow. It comes from what God has done for us.
                  >
                  > Your personal computer (brain) has been programmed over the years
                  of emotional and mental abuse and rejection through no fault of your
                  own. For whatever reasons, your parents also had some pattern of
                  thinking and belief system that unfortunately led to their own
                  mistakes. What I think the world has us do to "solve" our problems
                  is receive counseling. We're told to talk about our problems without
                  considering the simple fact that our underlying need is to be
                  reconciled with God. We then need to reprogram our flesh
                  patterns...reprogram our way of thinking to TRUTH! You have been led
                  to believe that you are unworthy, unlovable, undesirable,
                  inadequate, inferior, worthless, etc. These are some of the
                  patterns have formed and have been embedded in your brain
                  throughout your life, courtesy of Satan and his craftiness. Remember
                  that your parents were victims of this process too...those who
                  abused you, those you partnered with over the years, those who were
                  living with the same underlying
                  > need for acceptance, love, forgiveness, understanding,
                  significance, security...were all experiencing the flesh. Each of us
                  has a flesh pattern...a way of thinking, doing, believing, and
                  behaving.
                  >
                  > What you must do to achieve freedom from this bondage is to
                  reprogram your mind to the TRUTH of your identity in Christ. You are
                  a SAINT! You are completely accepted by Christ and God. Your
                  identity does not come from what other people say or think about
                  you, nor does it come from what they do to you. Your identity comes
                  from what God says and thinks and BELIEVES about you. God sees you
                  as a SAINT. You are His precious child, whom He loves beyond
                  measure. Nothing you do will ever change God's love for you. He
                  wants for you to realize your identity in Him so He can free you
                  from this bondage. Your behavior will not change until your thoughts
                  and flesh patterns are realized and changed. This is what the Bible
                  means when it refers to renewing the mind to truth. (Romans
                  12:2) "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but
                  be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able
                  to test and approve what God's will is�his good, pleasing and
                  perfect will."
                  >
                  > Your emotions are not always true...but they are real. What you
                  are feeling, experiencing, desiring...is all a product of your way
                  of thinking and your flesh pattern. I recommend you read "Lifetime
                  Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. Also check out "Classic Christianity" by
                  Bob George. These two resources may not touch on these thoughts in
                  your mind but they will help you to reprogram your mind to truth. I
                  will be praying for you. Remember that although it is hard for you
                  to share your struggles here in the forum and elsewhere...Satan will
                  not have a stronghold over you as confession is a first step to
                  freedom. I'm not suggesting you blast your congregation with your
                  experiences...but finding those who love you and know you are
                  special, worthy, and a terrific child of God will be able to pick
                  you up and pray with you when your struggles are at their peak. You
                  may go through many ups and downs but eventually, I believe God will
                  help you find total freedom from these desires. I will type up a
                  > list of verses I want you to read each day. (I did this for
                  several months before my self-esteem and belief changed...it was a
                  necessary thing for me and although I didn't struggle with
                  homosexual desires, I too had an emotionally abusive childhood) I'll
                  try to get the verses out by this weekend. Read them aloud, looking
                  at yourself in the mirror...as much as possible. It will be tough
                  and you'll feel awkward...but after time, your mind WILL be renewed
                  to TRUTH. And one day, you will wake up and your desires will seem
                  so foreign to you because you will believe you are who God says you
                  are! This is how my behavior changed. This is how my detrimental
                  thoughts and internal depression was driven away. Now, when someone
                  offends me, hurts my feelings, or I feel the need to act contrary to
                  my identity, I read my Bible verses! "[You] are free from any charge
                  against [you]. Romans 8:31-34
                  >
                  > We will be praying for you.
                  >
                  > Love and prayers,
                  > Christa
                  >
                  >
                  > theslink@J... wrote:
                  >
                  > I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have
                  had homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age
                  boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had
                  problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has
                  kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a
                  big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at
                  porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about
                  recovering for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions
                  and none of the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone
                  recommend a title about pedophilia?
                  >
                  > Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that
                  the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really
                  as easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I
                  was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
                  sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I
                  still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection
                  by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on
                  changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.
                  Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
                  under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I
                  have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have
                  problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a
                  week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal.
                  Can anybody offer any words of advice??
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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                  >
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                  > NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
                  >
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                  >
                  > Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
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                • Bridget Night
                  I agree that pedophilia and child abuse is horrible but the individual with this problem also needs help because someone or something messed them up too. I
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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                    I agree that pedophilia and child abuse is horrible but the individual with this problem also needs help because someone or something messed them up too. I recall thinking about the parents of the Columbine kids that did this horrible killing in the schools, and the pain they felt wondering what went wrong with their kids. There are a lot of good parents out there who are having problems with their kids today because of our society and culture and those bad influences. My husband and I would be considered goody goodies growing up. We liked obeying the rules and being good. The teachers loved us. We made good grades and participated in school activities. My husband mowed lawns at 10 and gave all the money to his parents who were out of work at one time. We look at each other sometimes and wondered what went wrong that our kids have had such problems at times. They were such good kids until they hit junior high and high school and the great need to fit in and peer pressure made them give in. We just can't judge wisely. Only God can factor in all the issues. Bridget
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Michael Crumpler
                    To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:43 PM
                    Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] Pedophilia and some other questions


                    Thanks Inge!
                    I totally agree!
                    This is not a public trial, but a support group!
                    Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is seeking help, only to be slammed by Tim! What a shame!
                    Child molestation is an awful act! That's why we should do everything in our power to prevent perpertrators from doing it. I pray that through our love and encouragement our brother will be led away from the need and desire to be with teen boys.

                    Tim......"let he who thinks he stand take heed lest he fall...."

                    Mike
                    Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
                    Tim,

                    Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly
                    inappropriate juncture.

                    A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer with *this*!!

                    How would you feel if you shared some of your struggles on this board, and,
                    instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to tell you that I had met a
                    homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!! Furthermore, what if I pointed
                    out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex was stoning and
                    lamenting that society no longer did this.

                    How would that help *you*?

                    That's exactly what you just did to your brother on this list who made
                    himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of being attracted to
                    young people. Before posting on a board like this, where vulnerable people
                    come for Christian support, it is good to pray the prayer of David in Psalm
                    141.3:
                    "Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips." This is
                    *not* a place to "let it all hang out" without considering how it will
                    affect a fellow struggler.

                    Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael for your contribution.

                    Blessings,
                    Inge Anderson

                    At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
                    >Hi Guys,
                    >
                    >One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when
                    >he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said
                    >that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt
                    >one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters
                    >is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of
                    >partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely
                    >required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child
                    >molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even
                    >peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts
                    >in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere
                    >thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child
                    >molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. Tim Way

                    Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                    *********************************************************
                    Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                    Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                    *********************************************************
                    A bruised reed shall he not break....
                    Isaiah 42:3
                    *********************************************************


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                  • Tim Way
                    Hi Chancellor, Are you sure about that, I mean ethnicity came about after the flood when men went to different parts of the earth according to their families
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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                      Hi Chancellor,

                      Are you sure about that, I mean ethnicity came about after the flood when men went to different parts of the earth according to their families and thier tongues right ? Tim Way

                      "Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@...> wrote:
                      Finally, something on which we agree. There is a tendency among many
                      Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that it
                      must necessarily be consistent with God's created design. It is my
                      contention that every aspect of creation was damaged by that first
                      sin in the Garden of Eden and/or subsequent sin (different ethnic
                      groups, for example, came about as a result of that incident at the
                      tower of Babel).

                      --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                      <inge@g...> wrote:
                      But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
                      > design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in our
                      behalf.
                      > That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except
                      in the
                      > grace of Christ.
                      >
                      > In His grace,
                      > Inge



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                    • Inge Anderson
                      ... Actually, Chancellor, I thought we agreed on a *lot* of things. :) And I agree with what you write below as well. :) Blessings, Inge :) ... Inge Anderson
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 3, 2003
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                        At 05:09 PM 10/3/2003 +0000, Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II wrote:
                        >Finally, something on which we agree.

                        Actually, Chancellor, I thought we agreed on a *lot* of things. :) And I
                        agree with what you write below as well. :)

                        Blessings,
                        Inge :)

                        > There is a tendency among many
                        >Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that it
                        >must necessarily be consistent with God's created design. It is my
                        >contention that every aspect of creation was damaged by that first
                        >sin in the Garden of Eden and/or subsequent sin (different ethnic
                        >groups, for example, came about as a result of that incident at the
                        >tower of Babel).
                        >
                        >--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                        ><inge@g...> wrote:
                        >But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
                        > > design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in our
                        >behalf.
                        > > That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except
                        >in the
                        > > grace of Christ.
                        > >
                        > > In His grace,
                        > > Inge

                        Inge Anderson <inge@...>
                        *********************************************************
                        Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
                        Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
                        *********************************************************
                        A bruised reed shall he not break....
                        Isaiah 42:3
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                      • Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II
                        It was a while after the flood. Everyone had settled in what is now Iraq. They built this tower because they wanted to get God to take notice of them. God
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 4, 2003
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                          It was a while after the flood. Everyone had settled in what is now
                          Iraq. They built this tower because they wanted to get God to take
                          notice of them. God chose to cause them to speak different languages
                          and, as a consequence, they scattered. That's how the different
                          ethnic groups came about.

                          --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way <inotheway@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > Hi Chancellor,
                          >
                          > Are you sure about that, I mean ethnicity came about after the
                          flood when men went to different parts of the earth according to
                          their families and thier tongues right ? Tim Way
                          >
                          > "Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@m...> wrote:
                          > Finally, something on which we agree. There is a tendency among
                          many
                          > Christians, however, to say that because something is not sin that
                          it
                          > must necessarily be consistent with God's created design. It is my
                          > contention that every aspect of creation was damaged by that first
                          > sin in the Garden of Eden and/or subsequent sin (different ethnic
                          > groups, for example, came about as a result of that incident at the
                          > tower of Babel).
                          >
                          > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
                          > <inge@g...> wrote:
                          > But then none of us have characters "consistent with God's
                          > > design in Genesis." We are *all* lost without Christ's death in
                          our
                          > behalf.
                          > > That was my point. None of us have anything to boast of -- except
                          > in the
                          > > grace of Christ.
                          > >
                          > > In His grace,
                          > > Inge
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Jan Hensley
                          God bless you my friend. Jan ... From: Tim Way To: Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 10:04 PM
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 5, 2003
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                            God bless you my friend. Jan
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Tim Way" <inotheway@...>
                            To: <exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 10:04 PM
                            Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] Pedophilia


                            > Hi Janet,
                            >
                            > I stand reproved. Thank you sister. Tim Way
                            >
                            > Jan Hensley <saltnlight@...> wrote:
                            > I agree that pedophilia and child abuse is horrible I was once a survivor,
                            but the individual with the problem needs help not anger and made to feel
                            damnation here. Think back to when you first discovered a son or daughter or
                            spouse having SSA. Do you think that they, in Christ's eyes, were any worse
                            off than your child or loved one??
                            >
                            > Tim, there are times when what you have said fits but not here in the case
                            of someone crying out for help.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Janet
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
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